An interview with Mr. Sales Martin Limbeck

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Introduction

Nice to have you with us again for another episode of Digital 4 Productivity. Don’t mind the background noise, it’ll be gone in a minute. I’m on the road.

Thorsten Jekel

Another great interview in this episode, this time with Mr. Sales Martin Limbeck.

We talk about how we have become active during the pandemic instead of complaining, how we have repositioned our business model and what you and they can learn from it. Lots of good ideas and enjoy this great interview.

Thorsten Jekel

You and your Thorsten Jekel.

Martin Limbeck

Welcome to a new edition of limbeck. Verkaufen, the successful podcast for sales, leadership and digitalization. And today, if you’re listening for the first time … No, most of you have already listened. So I don’t always have to say that, it’s either me or a special guest. And today there is a special guest, namely my friend, colleague and man of my heart Thorsten Jekel. Thorsten is one of the people who, if I can remember correctly, was one of the first to deal with the topic of iPads and selling, and who has given training courses on the subject. Thorsten has been extremely busy with the topic of hybrid events over the last 20 months. And that’s where we want to get straight into it. First of all, welcome, dear Thorsten.

Thorsten Jekel

Thank you very much, dear Martin, for your invitation. I’m always happy to be with you.

Martin Limbeck

Tell me, what’s it like for you? You’re mainly a speaker and consultant. You always have great tips. There are podcasts from you, videos about the animal, a new iPhone is coming out, this is coming out, new apps are coming out. You always discuss all that. We can learn a lot from that. And today I’d like to start by asking you to tell us about your best apps for salespeople and managers with the topic: How have the last 20 months been for you? I mean, I can’t hear the topic anymore, but this is the third year we’ve been doing this. But you’ve also reinvented yourself and that’s why I’m asking: How did it go?

Thorsten Jekel

Yes, absolutely. It’s been the hardest 20 months of my self-employment, which I’ve had for just over ten years now, because I’ve never worked so much. But I learned that from you, first shovel, then rake it in. I’m always happy to give you a bit of advice. And there is the situation that we all had as speakers, that we had a lot of cancelations for face-to-face events. And you know, I work very closely with Karin Burga, with the speaker management team, and she was crying on the phone and said: “I’ve got so many cancellations. And then I said: “Well, now there are two options here. Either we moan about it or we look at how we can help the customers so that they can hold their event. And then, based on our experience, we said: “Okay, guys, let’s convert it to online. And I had already done a lot online before, but livestreaming in this intensity and professionalism, we first had to really educate ourselves in many areas and gain experience. But that’s what we did and that’s why I always say don’t complain, just get on with it and do it. And that’s why it was exhausting as shit, but the most successful two years of my self-employment.

Martin Limbeck

Mega. And what exactly did you rebuild? What exactly did you and Karin build?

Thorsten Jekel

Yes, the idea was that we had a lot of customers who simply had kick-off events, who had conferences and who simply said, okay, we simply can’t have it take place in person. And then we said, but we want to reach the teams and then we said, okay, how can we do it through livestreaming formats and then we looked at what platforms are available on the market? Which are the most suitable for which formats? And then we simply started streaming conferences. And what we realized – and you’ve probably experienced this too – was that it was a kind of stopgap solution at the start. And we now have many customers who have said: “Wait a minute, we reached 500 people with a face-to-face event. We reached 6,000 people in the livestream. Let’s build a hybrid event for next year from the outset. So that’s what we’ve done, just like you invest a lot in your business, we’ve even invested in our own event location where we can offer hybrid, because I believe the future will be hybrid.

Martin Limbeck

And that’s exactly my question to you. You have now invested in a studio. I know that, I’ve invested in two studios, as you know, one here in my Wesel location and one in Dienstlaken. I actually believe that customers will have to set up their own in-house studios in the future if they want to sell their products and services in hybrid form. Right or wrong?

Thorsten Jekel

I think so, yes. However, there is always a difference, of course, between the much more classic topic of insourcing or outsourcing, and saying that if you have a customer who says: “I somehow organize an event once a year, then the investment is simply not in proportion when I look at the total amount of 700,000 euros spent on the conversion of this event location. And that means that when you make such investments, it only makes sense if you do it with several cooperation partners and together. You know, you also have a lot of customers from the insurance sector. There are also companies that have really professionally set up their own studios and communicate professionally with brokers. And if you do this on a regular basis, then of course it makes sense to do it in-house. Of course.

Martin Limbeck

What do you think it’s still so much about? I don’t know about you. In the last 20 months, I’ve seen things I didn’t want to see, from the Golden Gate Bridge to Do you hear me? Do you see me? Sure, some people don’t have the opportunity at home, it’s fair to say. Why do you think it took so long, or am I too quick, that I have the feeling it takes quite a long time for people to make empty turns, to get a decent microphone, to look into the camera at eye level, to build a decent background, to put a logo in the camera. None of this is rocket science, Mr. Mermet. Stream Deck, you’re a professional. And I believe that with a small investment of 500 euros, you as a seller or not even 500 euros, 250 euros, exactly, you can already make a huge impact here and present the whole thing properly. From your point of view, people don’t see the need? Is there no real kink to it? We are also holding a seminar on remote sales. And remote sales is here to stay. Is that also one of my new lectures? Why do you think it’s taking us so long?

Thorsten Jekel

So what I notice is that we are talking about Industry 4.0 and are often talking about Industry 0.4 in many areas. So that was the same, it frustrates me too. And these are often really the basics that are involved. And it doesn’t even have to be the way we have it now, with a green screen and a professional microphone. I’ll give you a very simple example: my wife and I were traveling in the Urland, were in a vacation apartment and also gave video conferences and training sessions in between. And what did we do? In the vacation apartment, we stacked two or three cooking pots on top of each other under the laptops so that we simply had them at eye level, somehow hung a picture at the back and simply had a white wall behind us. So I’m always someone who says to use technology as simply as possible. So you shouldn’t make the mistake that others sometimes make, that they just make huge upgrades in technology and then just produce hot air. So I’d rather have someone who … And can’t sell. And can’t sell, because if you’re in super technology now … Exactly.

Thorsten Jekel

And I say, I’d rather have someone who has something to say from a white wall with an integrated webcam than an air pump, which is just great in the picture and then of course I love it when you have both, just as it is with you, you have something to say and you present it professionally. And the good news is, what we’re doing here right now, with belly bands, with logos, with green screen technology and so on.

Martin Limbeck

Our podcast listeners don’t hear or see that because we don’t have it on YouTube like others, but we actually do. We see each other here because it’s just nicer. And by the way, my dear, it’s not a green screen because we can’t see it now.

Thorsten Jekel

I deliberately chose green screen absolute. And I sometimes work like this, sometimes like that, depending on where I am. And I’m also a big fan of saying that you don’t always have to be super high-tech, but you should have certain basics, as you’ve already mentioned, such as having the camera at eye level or ideally a little above eye level or things like that. If you wear glasses, you can either, like me, put on contact lenses for things like that or, as I’m sure you have, don’t have the lights directly in front of your nose, but at an angle from above. So these are little tips and tricks that simply lead to a clear professionalization. And it also makes a subconscious difference, even if I’m in a Zoom conference or a Teams call with a customer as normal and I have this nose-to-nose perspective, then I simply look down on this customer subconsciously and nobody wants anyone else to look down on them. And that’s just high status, low status. Exactly, and that’s just how I say: “No, you’re on an equal footing, even through things like that.

Thorsten Jekel

And we don’t just communicate through what we say, which is only a small fraction, but rather through what we convey with our voice or body language. And it’s also great that you support your customers in this area, because I believe that many still don’t take advantage of the opportunities that can be exploited.

Martin Limbeck

Absolutely. You are the digital working person for me. Now we’re all talking about New Work, we’re all talking about working from home. I had a conference this morning with a major printer manufacturer, the global market leader. So you know who it is. And it was also about the topic of how digitization will digitize personnel files. How will it all turn out? And we’re interested in your opinion. What is New Work? Is it really working from home? Will it be at home again? Because I’ll tell you what we had this morning, but first I want to do yours.

Thorsten Jekel

To put it bluntly, my wife and I were already doing what is now referred to as “New Work” 25 years ago when our daughter was born. And we were already working at home. And when I look at it, a lot of it is labels and labels somewhere, a lot of it is also environmental greenwashing, a lot of it is also against the background of the fact that we’re doing everything new, it’s also simply cost savings by reducing space. I believe that if you understand New Work in a meaningful and correct way, then it should mean that everyone ideally works where they are most productive. In other words, whether it’s at the customer’s premises or in the office, at different locations. And that can be an office, it can be the customer, it can be at home and technology can help. But the key lever here, and you are very strong in this respect, is not the issue of technology, not the issue of organization, but the key lever is still the issue of leadership. And that’s what I’m experiencing, that unfortunately leadership is really lived in very few companies. And for me, that is the much bigger, not to say the biggest lever in this area.

Martin Limbeck

What do you know that leadership is not practiced? That there is too little leadership or that people don’t know how to lead now with the “New Work”, i.e. working from home?

Thorsten Jekel

So I experience very few companies where leadership really takes place, where I experience really good leadership. So maybe I’m being a bit too negative, maybe I have too high expectations. As a managing director in a medium-sized company for many years, I have also managed large teams of employees and made my own, above all wrong decisions and made my own mistakes in management. That’s what we usually learn. And I simply experience it. And what you see when employees are sitting in the office, then of course you always have the opportunity to see someone face to face and I can more easily perceive how someone is doing. I was already familiar with this in the field. When I had colleagues who were in the field all week, for example, I got into the habit of calling them at least once a week and saying: “Tell me, how are you doing right now? What’s going on right now, regardless of the figures? And these are things that are even more important in remote work and new work, that you simply have your ear to the ground, because employees are people and if they have personal problems, if they’re in trouble somewhere, then it’s simply important that you actively do this in the interests of leadership.

Thorsten Jekel

And that’s where I experience this whole issue of leadership tension, when you consider, as I did before, that managers have sometimes managed 20, 30, 40, 50 employees, where I say you can’t realistically manage more than ten employees really well if you really lead them. And these are the kinds of things where I say that, unfortunately, people often only manage and communicate one-way, but don’t lead much. And I think there is a lot of potential in this area, especially in sales management. That is one of the areas where you are very strong.

Martin Limbeck

By the way, I was just about to say, the best thing to do if you want laptop height is to buy distribution guides and sell them and put them on top of each other. Then you’re exactly eye level. I’ve done the math, Thorsten. That’s a good template. Yes, I’ll sign it blindly. We also got to the point today that there are many people who like to escape back to the office because of the little terrorists at home. It has to be said quite clearly that they have cabin fever. Or some, as I said today in a different context, some young people in Munich only have a one-room apartment. There’s no homus, there’s the kitchen table, there’s the sofa, there’s the, I don’t know, the standing corner to the kitchen or whatever. I think we still have a lot of work ahead of us. I think it’s an exciting time and I’m totally with you on that and leadership is clearly a very important factor. I think so too. You’re also good at apps. What are three apps for salespeople that you say are a must-have today to keep up to date?

Thorsten Jekel

Yes, I like to stick to my motto of saying less is more, in other words as simple as possible. And what I love in sales is the blank sheet of paper. And the white sheet of paper, we can’t see it now in the podcast, so I’ll explain it. So Thoughts like thoughts is an application. When I open it up, I just have a white sheet of paper and I can simply draw something on this white sheet of paper. And if I don’t have enough space, I can simply move it here and continue drawing. It’s a bit like the overhead projector at school, which you used to roll out like this, this foil. It’s a super simple application where I say I can do less rather than more. Very good. The second application is PDF-Expert. If I could only have one application on this thing, it would be PDF-Expert, because PDF-Expert is an application that allows me to present PDF files excellently. And the nice thing is that PDF looks the way it should on every box. And we’ve all experienced that. Then someone has somehow prepared a great PowerPoint presentation or in marketing and then somehow the font is missing, then it’s too big and then it grates on the customer.

Thorsten Jekel

And we didn’t have this problem with PDF. You can forward things and the PDF-Expert offers the option of highlighting things. The third topic I always recommend is the calculator. Max. There’s no calculator on the iPad because Steve Jobs thought the one the guys built was ugly. And then he just said: “Nope, the calculator, it’s not coming from the iPhone to the iPad. And at some point they forgot that they might have to deliver it again at some point and that’s why you need a calculator. And now, I think it’s so nice, there are lots of people who have a free calculator because they say: “What? It costs 1.20 euros. I have a free app. Then I say: “Then you’re a formative premium provider, you want good courses and then you calculate something on the calculator. There’s a World of Warcraft ad where I say: “Guys, I started selling cash registers at Nixdorff in 1988. I love you. Awesome. That’s when I learned, you’ve got properly polished shoes, you’ve got a sensible tie. I’m also one of the few people who run around with a tie because I kind of … What did my colleague Bert Hellbeck say the other day, a tie is the new punk?

Thorsten Jekel

So I’ve grown up to the point where you dress properly, your shoes are polished and you have your stuff together. And the Max calculator is ad-free, it’s clean and you have a strip of paper on it. And that’s cool, because I see a lot of sales reps who are just so complicated, they make huge Excel calculation tools and I say: “Hey, a normal pocket calculator with a paper strip is enough for a lot of things. So less is more, don’t make it so complicated and I just see a lot of employees in sales and that’s exactly what you always preach, they just die in beauty and out of fear of rejection, when they go to close the deal, they do another loop with another app and where I say: “Guys, cut the crap. Just do as little technology as necessary, that’s always best.

Martin Limbeck

I could go on for hours, couldn’t I? So let’s summarize: Three good apps. I always give an implementation task in my podcast: Get rid of all unnecessary apps from your cell phone, dear ones. You know you only use your cell phone three times a day anyway, otherwise you’re addicted anyway, dear. Check your screen time. Secondly, eye level, very important. Light is important. If you want, send us a short e-mail to: willkommen@limbackgroup. Com. You’ll get our technical list. You’ll get all sorts of lighting recommendations for a small fee. Of course I also link to Thorsten and his website. If you ever need someone for a good lecture, for a conference, for a consultation, the man is of course also available. And I’ll check the third task again, because I’ve also seen how some people have presented themselves here over the last 20 months. I always say that remote is nothing more than going to a customer, except that you present yourself live, but you should dress the same on camera and underneath as you do on top. A little hint. In that sense, thank you very much, dear Thorsten. Good luck. Have a good week. See you soon.

Also available in: Deutsch

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