How forms make life easier

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This episode is about the digitization of forms. Have fun listening.

Further links

Airform

Introduction

You are very welcome. Another installment of first turn on your brain and technology.

And you know, when it comes to switching on your brain first and technology, sometimes there are impulses from me and sometimes there are also impulses from other great people.

people, namely Mr. Grosche and Mr. Grosche. I got to know him through a mutual friend of ours, Stephan Heinrich, and Stephan Heinrich always deals with the topic of how to combine sales and technology in a sensible way.

And that is exactly what Mr. Grosche is talking about, because in Germany I always say forms, forms from the cradle to the grave. And I think you have a very, very clever solution for this. And before I tell you a lot about yourself, why don’t you tell me what you do, Mr. Grosche?

Yes, thank you very much for the invitation. It’s actually exactly what we do. Forms, forms, forms. But the background to how this came about is actually the important part. I’ve been in this IT industry for many, many years, over 30 years in fact, and have spent a lot of my time working with CRM systems and ERP systems.

CRM systems have been introduced in some very large companies that operate worldwide. And no matter where they introduced it, there was always an issue at the end where they said, yes, but now we have to connect our sales people, our technicians or our inspection people or whoever, and that became complicated in the classic systems.

A key system that we have for sales, for example, was Siebel. Which was later bought by Oracle. If you then wanted to connect external people to the employees, the investment was enormous and the handling was poor. So it was really diametrically opposed.

And the even bigger problem was that a large ship certification company in Hamburg, for example, told me. If I now have to invite my 700 people from all over the world to train them here in Hamburg, then let’s work out together how much it will cost.

Yes, and if I’m cheeky enough to say, why not paper forms, because then I can save myself all this IT stuff.

Yes, that’s a great solution. These paper forms are lying around in the car. The children play, then build swallows with them, they arrive too late at the customer’s back office, the employees can’t read what’s written on them. They write the wrong thing, calculate, maybe a gear instead of a gearbox.

And all these problems are naturally connected to it. And that’s exactly what companies are always struggling with. On the one hand with the manageability of applications in it, but on the other hand also with the need for optimization, which they simply cannot organize properly by hand.

To solve this in IT cleanly, but not just cleanly, but, as Albert Einstein said, as simply as possible, but not simpler.

Yes, that’s wonderful. I think that’s a great quote. I always say two things: first switch on your brain, then the technology. So you don’t have to do every little thing just because it’s digital. On the other hand, I do say that sensible digitalization makes sense. Then simply use technology. And I like the addition you say. As simple as it gets, but not simpler is also a great statement.

And what I thought was great is that you also have two videos on YouTube, which we are happy to link to this episode, where you explain your systems once in short form and once in long form. And the logic behind them. And what I found very exciting was that you once made a commercial calculation where you said how much such a topic doesn’t pay off. What is the basic idea behind this commercial calculation that you made?

I found that very interesting. We have a company as a customer in the energy sector that installs and manufactures combined heat and power plants. And they had exactly this problem, this paper problem, and we had the management was aware that it had to be digitized and also had the confidence in us to solve these issues.

But you said, yes, we also want to do the math on Invest afterwards, we really want to know exactly, and we went there with them and really did the math, found out how long it takes them to fill out a form by hand.

Get out the slip of paper, fill in the address, everything that goes with it? How long does it take them to pick out materials, write the numbers on the forms, add the quantity and the whole thing has to be relative. And if the employees then – I don’t want to say they don’t feel like it – are simply and naturally so busy with their actual work that they say yes, that’s not so important here, because I have to get the machine running and not just get the slips of paper running.

We have analyzed all these problems with them and also what is behind them in the back office.

The computers that the notes come into the back office too late, are collected once a week or perhaps later because an employee is on vacation.

They then have to be typed out again. This also gives rise to queries. There are also errors, no question. And all of this together led to the fact that the post-calculation, as we did together with the customer, showed that they had the investment out within 3/4 of a year. And 3/4 of a year is a word that means within a financial year, so anyone who doesn’t do that is stupid.

So I say now, that’s really great and it’s always like this, I always hear, that’s

yes, that they cost, well, we kind of have them anyway, but if you really look at it commercially and then digitization makes sense.

So that’s how it is when I see someone, there are such stupid examples of digitalization for me, I recently came into a training room as a trainer and there was such a digital flipchart and on the one hand the pen wasn’t there, so it couldn’t be used at all.

Secondly, it was a flipchart, which was black and white instead of bright colors, so you could only draw on it in gray, where I said, “How much did it cost?

And when I say that someone didn’t understand digitization, they translated a medium one-to-one into digital because it’s always cool, because you have to digitize somehow, but they didn’t make it better, they made it worse.

And I think it’s an example of how you can make them more productive. And when I look at it now, I think that was eight years ago.

For the K’Licht advertising company Schreib und Keppler, we digitized installation, service and repair reports on the iPad and that’s exactly what they said. The fitters just filled in half of it. In other words, all the consumables weren’t on there, they entered kilometer zone two, but then didn’t enter the number of kilometers. And of course you can do that on the

Do not check the plausibility of the paper. We drove around with these forms for a week, sometimes even longer, which means that in the end they were only able to write an invoice four weeks later. And by digitizing this form, we now have.

Writing the invoice the next day. And that, I think, in addition to the question of how much time I can save, is also an additional effect of saying that I have an extreme liquidity advantage, because if I have billable services, then I simply get the money earlier.

So this is also an important issue for many people in the SME sector. So I think that’s why it’s important. And with everything you do in IT, there’s always the question of course it’s nice if it’s cool, but it either has to make customer service better, so that customers say great, or it has to increase productivity and ultimately contribute to the return on investment.

I think that’s great. And what I think is great is that you almost mentioned it in a subordinate clause to say, oh, this issue of connectivity, because I can still remember that the iPad side was relatively easy to get the big one out like we had.

The customer has Navision as an ERP system and this connection cost us a lot of gray hair in the team, so we really struggled with it.

So what is your experience of connecting background systems?

Uh, let’s take a brief historical look. When I look at systems like the ones we used to implement in the CRM area, one of the most expensive things in the implementations was the connection. And when we first designed the concept, we said, no, an application like this has to be as simple as possible. And that’s exactly what we managed to do.

We are at the lowest level, we also connect databases. They don’t have to be databases. The most challenging case, for example, was a customer who had an extra Excel sheet for every receipt. But we can also connect things like that. And the integration?

First of all, read integration is really one of the easiest exercises for us because we have chosen a very, very simple method in our concept. Writing into the ERP is of course a question mark, because I also need the customer’s ERP partner for this. Or, of course, if the customer has the skills themselves, the skills there too.

But we also went there and said that all the data we collect through our forms is automatically entered into tables when new fields are added. The customer can define new fields themselves, let’s say a single field in an existing form.

Additional recording also takes five minutes – not even three minutes – and automatically creates database fields etc., provided you have the necessary authorizations. In other words, we have already fully automated all the processes behind it.

The customer does not need any technical know-how at this point. Only if this data is to be written back into the ERP is coordination necessary, of course. But that’s easy because our specifications are also simple. Super.

And as you know, I also did an episode with Alf Ruppert. On the subject of Daylite. That’s the CRM system that I also use and I also referred to it in this episode.

On the one hand, I like to show cool solutions in my episodes and I think Airform is an extremely smart solution and I’d like to take the opportunity to simply convey a few basic principles to you here and say, no matter which provider you choose, what are the important criteria?

And I think we’ve already seen here, firstly, why does it make sense at all? Because I get my money earlier, I save a lot of handling costs that I have with me.

I think the second issue, which is very, very important, is this issue of simple integration, that you simply have the option of getting the data out of the system and getting it back again.

Because these double-entry activities are again time-consuming and lead to errors. These classic things, so that’s something you should be aware of, I always say that there are few bad solutions, but there are many unsuitable solutions.

That means you always have to see which solution fits. And my experience is also I started at Nixdorf in 1988, so I’ve been young for a bit longer.

And the experience I’ve just gained is always the interface problem between the systems, which always makes it difficult. Now there are systems that have dispatching, where I say, I have fitters here, I have corresponding service orders, I distribute them via my system and then I blow them out. Your system certainly supports this, as I understand it. And then there are also systems where you say, “Man, maybe I don’t have this dispatching at all. What is your approach to dispatching orders in your system?

A brief addition to the advantages or the important requirements. A small addition is. We also want the people who work with it outside to enjoy working with it. A very, very important topic.

If they have fun with it, if they really enjoy using it, they will also use it productively. If they have an aversion to software from the outset, then the data quality will also be poor afterwards. Very, very important So the fitters usually really enjoy filling out forms. It’s their favorite activity. That’s why they didn’t go into the commercial sector, but into the industrial sector, because they said, I really want to fill out forms.

Experience shows that you get low motivation and it is a very important point to simply make the systems as easy to use as possible for the users.

And before the users can process it, such orders have to be distributed somehow. So if I say now that I don’t have such a solution, I think they also offer something along these lines.

We have a central tool, the Airform Manager, in which all relevant orders are visible and can either be read from the ERP system or entered directly in the Manager on an ad hoc basis.

Let’s assume an industrial company that has service technicians out in the field, and on Friday afternoons at 5 p.m. a call comes in that someone urgently needs a service because something is broken and the ERP has already been shut down.

Yes, too. The people who might create such complex orders are already gone, on vacation or at the weekend. Then of course you can also create orders directly yourself.

These orders are always visible to the manager and can always be distributed by the manager via a planning board, always to customers. So I think you even have it so that you can take a look at it.

So then maybe one or the other can imagine it even better. Perhaps that would also be something to add, because I found it very, very exciting, because with many solutions you can get things in and out, but I also found this plant panel solution very smart.

We can see them wonderfully there. We have the planning board. On the left-hand side, we see orders to be distributed to the information displayed here, which can of course be set by the customer themselves. After all, we don’t invent the information that is essential for the customer, but the customer determines it. And I have chosen a selection here.

Current service reports that currently need to be distributed to employees, in this case those based in the Düsseldorf region. Of course, this is regionally limited according to the main region, we can divide it up according to zip code areas etc. pp.

But I’ll just take the simplest case. And say, this order that I have up here, I just want to have it distributed on the planning board on Friday, October 28.

I take it, drag it over and the job is done, and in this case, done means a bit more than just “I see a green box.” Because at the same time you have to scroll here, the journey times have been calculated. If the customer drives to the customer today or now for the relevant appointment, he has a quarter of an hour’s travel time. He has a working time of six hours and a departure time of 15 minutes.

And if I say that’s enough for the order, that’s how it should be done, then I press the release button here and everything else in the background runs automatically. The process that runs now is our system white.

The order must be sent to the technician Klaus Bube, who then obtains the relevant additional information. Perhaps it contains material specifications or old service reports need to be provided at the same time, for example, so that he can see what his colleague has done there in the past.

Such information is all pulled together directly from the ERP, perhaps also open items or whatever – many things are conceivable. And this order is automatically made available to the technician. Based on the color, I can now see that the thing is already on its way, so the mail is out – you could say.

Yes, I can see all the other colors here, orders have already been processed. These colors can be set in the system. But I can also put orders in here in a completely different way. Because if I say that pulling in each order individually is far too much work for me because I have so many orders, then of course I can go and say Dear system, pick out all the orders that are optimal for this employee who is in this region so that he can process them in a certain order and the employee is still at home on Friday afternoons at 16:00 because he attaches great importance to it.

Yes, it’s always like that, he has to pay attention. That’s great. In your system, when it goes to the fitter and I often have this issue that he may need certain parts, i.e. small material, where I know it, so that many entrepreneurs also struggle with the fact that small material is consumed but not written down and therefore not invoiced.

Is there a possibility that you can also give out article masters, so that a fitter can then say, “I have just installed this three-eighths inch angle valve somewhere here, etc., so that not everyone calls it something else.

One says 3/8 inch angle valve, the next says angle valve, the next says 3/8 and then you always have to bring the same article back together again afterwards, but instead you say, you have to use the same article.

has the option of outputting a part of the article master, which the fitter can then also select on the end device.

Does it work for you? Of course. We can give out complete article masters, which are also pre-selected, so that nonsensical articles are not given over.

That’s exactly what I mean. Such a part of the article originates very precisely. Then brochure sleeves are also included in article masters, but these have no relevance for the technician.

But not only that, we can also transfer any amount of data. So if someone now says I don’t just need the articles, but I also need a very specific amount of data that I can use for other selections, then we can do that too.

So this is completely independent at this point and, very importantly, on the client side, i.e. the technician side, I have a full text search for these articles. So I don’t have to say, I know the article number starts with two or I have to search for three eighths or anything like that.

I can also search full text in combination, which makes it very easy for technicians to access this data.

Yes, great, because that’s always the way to say it. Who has the article numbers in their head? You don’t always have the original box available somewhere where you can see the item number or a QR code to scan it. That’s the challenge in practice. I always see this when I’m at conferences, where people like that say, yes, I can pull the whole article master over there, then I say, I want to have that as a fitter for the brochure sleeves you mentioned.

Then it backfires, they say yes, then I’ve got all this irrelevant stuff, what’s the point?

Because then it won’t be done again. So that’s why I think it’s great and we’ve already talked about the installer side. As far as I know, they support all common platforms, whether it’s Android or iOS.

So for the common platform, you then also offer the end device, i.e. the solution for the end device.

Everything is correct, including Windows, even for Windows. What is it? No, joking aside. So all platform mobile, so it’s not just an iPad solution, but on which platforms is it available?

It’s also available on Windows, Android and iOS and it’s the same code base. This means that we are actually only developing a single application that looks almost identical on all three platforms.

Almost not at all, because the menu navigation is slightly different. But that’s the only difference. It is 100% identical within the forms.

Yes, great. Then you’ll have a chance to show us what your site looks like on the tablet.

Yes, with pleasure. I’ll just switch over. Wonderful. I can already see professionals on the road.

That’s great. It gives you a better idea of what it looks like. But we’ve now seen what it looks like in the workshop, in the office, in dispatching.

And now let’s take a look at the page. This looks like what it looks like on an iPad. But as you say here, on Android devices on Windows devices it’s simple. There are a few elements that look different depending on the system, but the basic logic is the same. So if I were to put a new device next to it, you wouldn’t see any difference at all in what we’re responsible for, i.e. this surface, and you’d be on a Windows interface.

I put this Wait up here on the six. The left side because Windows devices are almost always used in landscape format. Because otherwise it would be weird. It’s already directly in the application. We can also see what information is available here in terms of forms. Once, I see that there is a new form here. It’s probably only just arrived. This is something that I’m supposed to work on today from 8:00 to 14:29. This is exactly the service report that we released earlier on the other side.

Yes, so you see, we are here live, not faked, but really here, so that you can see the process.

Yes, exactly, we’re over here and I’ll briefly explain the list again and we had an idea when we designed this software many years ago, we said it had to be as simple as an e-mail system. That’s why there are new reports here that I’ve received.

There are some that I have in progress. In addition, what do I have to do today, because that’s always an important aspect, of course, it’s exactly before and there’s a long before and I think every person today who has a cell phone or something similar already knows what to do with the terms.

Great. When I go in here, an additional piece of information is requested, namely whether I want to start processing the order. The reason for this is that the dispatcher at the head office can then see from the color whether this order has already been started or not.

And here I am in my forms. We have taken an example form here and we have just talked about the topic of materials and here we make it easier for the technicians if possible.

Because this job is supposed to work with the specified materials in a certain activity or specification, it could just as well be specified materials where it says I used, I used, I used, so that I don’t even have to look for it anymore.

I think they even have that at the bottom, if I see here. Additional material, I think, if you want to scroll further up, is included.

Here you can say yes and additional material. He happens to know that sinks start with a two. You could use other terms and you could also practically specify material here in the area by saying that this is definitely a filter that you have to replace, for example, and then I can give him the item number of this filter so that firstly he doesn’t have to type it in and secondly, in case of doubt, he even knows which box to put it in. He has to reach into his car. If he has maybe five or six different filters, then he doesn’t have to go in and say “Well, which filter is that?

But know from the outset which filter I need to take with me? Exactly. And in addition, uh, many of our customers do this, who say I don’t just want to record here what quantity or in what quantity I use here, but I also want to know at the same time what vehicle stock I have.

Great. Some materials are always in a vehicle and if he uses something from the vehicle stock and he comes back to the back office the next time, he can use the warehouse.

Automatically replenished. This means that he may have made four orders that day and then used up items and then you can see immediately what needs to be replenished.

If I say I have a target stock somewhere that I then have to replenish.

That’s exactly how great it is. So there are just things that I keep saying, there are just so many. Of course, you can also do things like this with Microsoft Forms as part of M365 when it comes to simple forms. But if you really think about it in terms of what’s behind it all, then there’s a lot more behind it in practice.

And then with Microsoft Forms I can’t just say, I’m already transferring article masters.

Such things don’t just go back in one direction, which is perfectly fine for many applications.

I do that a lot. I train many field service organizations in the productive use of iPads. And when we say in advance of such a training course, for example, what questions do you have, what tips do you have, etc., is it purely one-way communication, as we know it with Survey Monkey?

Wonderful. Completely sufficient. So always the simplest possible technology, but not simpler. In other words, it wouldn’t be enough for a service area. That’s why I’m a big fan of tablets, whether in the Android or iPad world.

Let me put it this way: fitters are not the most delicate of people, so if you say that I can work with a thick finger

I can work with my fat finger and can simply tap on it with KuDiWufis with short sausage fingers like I have.

I think that’s almost more suitable in practice than working with laptops.

What is your opinion? That’s really the case and with a laptop I have to work with the mouse or the trackpad or something similar. That’s more strenuous and the laptop has to be parked somewhere.

I can simply hold an iPad or an Android tablet in my hand or, if I’m traveling a bit more roughly, put it in a decent case where I can easily grasp it from behind.

And people can simply deal with that better. It’s easier and that applies to us too. We also like working with an iPad, especially when we’re on the move.

Nobody would take out their laptop at the airport today if they also had an iPad.

Yes, and what you say At the airport we still have the chance to use the laptop in the sense of the word, to put the thing on our lap.

When I look The reality of work for many service technicians is that they can’t sit down anywhere or have a desk or anything. So I also accompanied the Lorenz Snack Group to a certain extent when it came to the iPad roll-out.

For example, because they are also in supermarkets, we have bought iPad sleeves that have these hand loops or also from Transgourmet, which are then in the hotel, catering and communal catering sectors.

Then they talk to the kitchen cop, not necessarily always at the desk, but in the warehouse, and then they have a case where they say, with a strap on the back, you can hold it in your hand, hold it in one hand and then type with the other hand.

And these are things that are always important in my experience, that you really look at the reality of the lives of the people who work, or if you look at Claas, they make combine harvesters, they make things like this for farmers.

I say to the farmer, when they are in the barn, I don’t know if a laptop is the right tool. So you might even have to think about the cover. And the other day I had this with the light advertiser.

A fitter’s iPad fell off the scaffolding on the third floor. Fortunately, we had an Otterbox Defender around it. The device was still intact.

So that means, do it on a laptop, it’s going to be difficult. So that’s another question. Or very practically with Schreib und. Keppler. They have these iPads and in their vehicles they practically have these things next to the seats where they used to throw in their clipboards, so they just throw the iPad in there.

So, and the guys don’t treat it so gently, they have an iPad, they throw it in there, so that’s something like that. And when I look, I used to be told that Apple is expensive.

In the meantime, people are really saying that the simplest iPad, which has just been refurbished, i.e. which now even has the camera across the top, which has 5G and things like that, somehow costs €400,500.

So you’re not even in a particularly expensive situation and so the things just work and that’s the way it is and I think it’s great when they take advantage of the opportunities like this and just as you said, if someone is also working with Android, it’s the same.

So, your app is adapted for a wide variety of areas. I don’t think Windows tablets exist in this form any more, do they? So in the market, or do you also have it on Windows tablets? No longer relevant in the market?

Yes, well, that was somewhere, because Microsoft’s idea was to say well, man, we’re actually the jack of all trades, where we say we can do Windows, we can do tablets.

The problem is, as you say, 1% market share. This means that, unfortunately, even if you look beyond that, if you have fitters who have tablets, then ideally they should also have their emails.

They should be able to make other notes that are not order-related. They should have smart apps on them so that you can say, “Man, at Schreib and Keppler, for example, we now have the system functions, such as where is someone here, where are the fitters, where have they released the locations to each other and also released the locations to the assembly manager.

Not without their knowledge, of course, but the assembly manager could or can see on his iPad where my guys are at the moment. And if a repair comes in, he can see which of the guys is closest and can send the order to them.

And this is something that is now included in the Apple world simply through this where is function, for example, where you used to need very expensive fleet management solutions.

So that’s why I’m a bit, I won’t say completely neutral, more on the Apple side.when we did the interview, I didn’t even think that they would even participate from Mac.so every platform has its advantages and disadvantages.so what are your experiences.on which platforms is your system mainly used?

As soon as it comes to tablets, our recommendation is clearly Apple. And for several reasons. For one. One key reason is that I get operating system updates for much, much longer. A very important point, yes. A very important point. The second reason is that I have no chance of somehow stealing the data underneath, which would of course be much, much easier with other systems.

No chance with Apple. I can make a clean backup system that I can rely on 100% and the ergonomics of the devices are simply excellent.

There’s no other way to put it. We have really been aware of this issue for many, many years now and have made this comparison with customers time and again.

It’s just like you say, an iPad is affordable today and if I want to use a stylus for typing, then that same affordable iPad is also available with a stylus. There is no reason to do anything else. Some companies just have system decisions that go in other directions.

And that’s why we naturally support Android and Windows just as much. In the education sector, I would say that there are still a relatively large number of laptops on the road, simply because it was traditionally the equipment of technicians, but as soon as we have to deal with new installations, I can say that the majority are iOS or tablets, as well as a not insignificant proportion of phones.

Yes, that’s also definitely a point. Especially if you now have a phablet, as it’s so nicely called in new German, so that’s where the Android people were before with the Galaxy Note.

I was already on the verge of getting a Galaxy Note after Apple took a long time when they brought out the Max, the large devices, that’s definitely a size where I say, then I can also get forms with it. So that’s a great way of thinking and then I don’t need two devices for the fitters, I have one device for the fitters. So in absolute terms, the proportion of tablets to smartphones.

I don’t think I can say that. But I can describe it the other way around.

We always have sales people who are on the road, who are doing reports, who perhaps have to photograph situations or the like.

Then I’m more likely to come across iPhones. But if it’s technicians who also have to search for extensive materials and the like, then it’s more likely to be tablets.

Comprehensible. And it’s the right thing to do. You always have to look at what the right solution is. So again, there is no such thing as good or bad. There are just suitable in this area. Question I always hear the motto “Man, the future is online”.

Why do I need an app?

I just do it in the browser. What’s your take on saying always on and screw the platform? The future is always a bit of a crystal ball. Maybe the future is online. But with the current infrastructure conditions we have here in Germany, for example, that’s not the case.

First of all, not the case. The second thing is that online is a bit difficult in the basement. So if I have technicians who also have to run around in basements or in new development areas or somewhere else and have to record their things, then it may well be that they have no reception. But they want to continue working properly. And that’s exactly what we do.

We are completely offline-capable. This means that the technical report I have downloaded or synchronized here is now available to me online and offline. The materials are only available offline. I have everything with me and I’m not reliant on being able to connect to the outside world.

First in the basement and only install the power station there as an example. Then I can do my work when I’m out in the fresh air again. The whole thing synchronizes automatically and my data is back in the back.

You don’t even know how happy I am because I’m there. I feel like that sometimes. Like I’m an old fart. Even now, because I’m always at conferences, then the I’ll say somewhat younger IT consultants come and say what do you old farts want?

I say today work again Windows, terminal server and everything favorite solution, etc., where I always say have you ever been in the boiler room?

You’re the runner-up and I say have a virtual session on your smartphone.

Have fun with it.

So you need good reading glasses, and that’s always where I say that theory and practice differ for me. And ultimately the acceptance of such solutions is also immediately gone when you realize, okay, this isn’t YouTube.

And then people say don’t do that shit, I’m not doing it. And in times when there’s a shortage of skilled workers, I can only say eat it or die, you have to do it.

Then people say, oh gosh, go to the employer where I have systems that I enjoy working with. Just like you said earlier. So that’s always a great friend, also always from solutions.

And if I’ve understood it correctly, you don’t have to manually say, I’m uploading or downloading something, but it’s like with emails, that I say, the moment it has an Internet connection, it synchronizes in both directions.

Right? Exactly. That’s great, because I think that’s always important, because if you then somehow have a system where you say, now I have to actively upload something, I have to upload it more actively.

People forget that. So it’s about my own data backup, any data backup that I haven’t set up automatically, I don’t do. So that’s why I set up the systems so that it runs automatically.

And when it comes to data backup, that might also be an issue. And I think we can ignore the iPad point of view again now, if I look at this topic online offline that we have, the question is cloud or not cloud because there are people who say cloud means cloud because it steals data and there are many solutions that are cloud-based.

Like SmaoOne, for example, or CraftNote in the craftsmen’s sector, where you say, “I have solutions like a cloud available.” Now I have many customers who say, “I think it’s only semi cool if I have a cloud solution.” I would like to install it on my own systems.

What is your approach to the topic?

Our basic strategy is that it is on prem, i.e. installed in your own environment.

Basically, if someone says they absolutely want to have it in the cloud, then it’s not an issue. They can set up a cloud themselves and put it in there. But we don’t jump to the cloud because the sovereignty of the data should lie 100% with the customer and not somewhere else.

And customers actually love that too. Because the infrastructure is in place at the customer’s premises. Every customer has a normal server structure, be it outsourced, with a service provider or just whatever.

And yes, hardware requirements are so minimal that he can really, I say in this day and age, go and say push a button a new virtual server.

Two services are added and the database connection is added and that’s it. That means I don’t need to buy a quantum computer or a new computer.

So that means minimal answers. But that’s very interesting, because that’s what I thought when Stephan Heinrich made contact with us. I don’t know of any other solutions that are also on premise and yet don’t mean a huge data center, huge expenses, etc.

Because the first question is always to say okay, I can have it myself. The second question I always ask, as mentioned above, is how complicated is it to install?

Because of course the cloud often has the advantage that I have a browser interface, I can quickly make my form theme through. That means the entry threshold is low.

How do you support companies when you say, “Gee, it’s all kind of complicated with the setup”?

Yes, of course we work closely with the customer’s service provider. But in today’s world with the virtualization of servers, it’s really the case that you almost only have the push of a button to set up a system, to make a basic configuration.

I think we’re arguing here in-house about whether we need to charge for two hours or four hours as that would be very, very quick to do. Of course, fine-tuning with the customer for forms and so on. That kind of thing takes time, of course, because you have to discuss what makes sense and what should we leave out? Or you just said that in a subordinate clause, which I think is really important. I can still remember the Schreib and Keppler project very well.

We sometimes had eight-page forms and they said, yes, we have to bring them into the digital world and then I said stop!

Before we do that, please explain to me what you do with each individual field. Some of them were clear, like travel times etc., and you don’t have to discuss them at length, but there were some fields where I said, what is he doing with that field?

And then the two owners sat opposite me and then Phillip said, do you know what we’re going to do with it? Andreas I don’t know either.

So, if the two owners are not the third generation to do this and have already started there as children, then we’ve got ourselves a new business.

If they didn’t know, we said So, now let’s ask the people in Despatching? Now the assembly manager was, say, come here, assembly manager.

Do you need the information, he says. Nope, the fitters would never get it anyway. So it’s empty. And what did we do? We just left it out. In other words, we reduced it from eight pages to three.

Acceptance was also a major factor, with the fitters saying how cool is that?

I don’t even have eight pages, I only have to fill in three pages. At last you’ve taken out the shit where we said no one would fill it out anyway, it doesn’t make sense.

We also included fitters in this project because we said that these are the guys who work outside.

I also went out with fitters beforehand and said but what does your reality look like, which I always recommend in such projects, because I am sometimes involved as an external project manager and then provide training for the people.

And that’s where it’s important to really work from practical experience. That’s why I’m pleased. I rarely experience such grounded, pragmatic IT people like you, who simply come from a practical background. Because I think that’s the important thing, I also said to you after Stephan Heinrich brought us together that we absolutely have to do an interview. I think that’s totally brilliant.

Yes, that’s exactly the thing. When we sit with the customer, when we discuss things with them, we tell them from the outset that we are prepared to do anything they want, but only if we understand why they need it.

Yes, first you switch on the brain, then the technology. That’s exactly the point, yes, perhaps to conclude, what is your license model, i.e. what is your starting point?

We have a normal purchase license with a corresponding maintenance thing behind it, so that you automatically get your new version and you also participate in the ongoing development.

Yes, we also have individual rental models where customers say okay, I’d rather rent, which we then calculate individually. And yes, those are the two models.

Yes, great, and that’s my point – it’s already difficult to find a non-subscription solution today. It can also be quite attractive to say that you have a one-off investment here and then just have it. I think they have a maintenance fee of around 18% somewhere. So if I remember correctly from our preliminary discussion, we also talked about lower running costs and what you said earlier, that it usually pays for itself within a financial year. That’s why I find it so exciting. And my starting point is always to say that I always look at solutions on the market that are available today, that you can use today. And we’ve talked a lot about the service sector. Fitters.

So what other areas of application are there where your solutions can also be used as form-based solutions? Another area is, of course, sales.

Yes, exactly what Stephan Heinrich says again and again is to ask some important, decisive things in sales and to really always do this, to pay attention to certain things, to support sales talks and also to bring information into the back office afterwards, where you can actually make a reasonable assessment.

What are the opportunities we have out there right now or don’t have out there right now?

Another thing that is also done is that customers have to do their TÜV reports for their machines regularly, which means they have to come with their own people.

The safety of drilling machines, wheel loaders, large cranes and so on.

Assess every twelve months and this is done with our software. Or we had this earlier as an example or as a keyword in passing in the form that I had called up.

Risk assessment is becoming more and more of an issue these days. I have a customer who makes these Air-BA dampers, these smoke extraction hoods, for industrial buildings. And you can imagine that if your technician is supposed to repair, maintain or whatever, he first has to carry out a risk assessment.

In other words, to put it simply, he must confirm that there is currently no snow on the roof.

Yes, running around on an ice surface up there, running the risk of falling off. And so there are a lot of risk assessments that have to be done these days. And if you don’t do them and something happens, you get into a lot of trouble with the employers’ liability insurance association.

That’s right. It’s an important topic that you don’t really have on your radar. And I’m still familiar with it. I used to be responsible for a service organization and I know what the employers’ liability insurance association is.

So that’s why it was always the guys who were, I’ll say, justifiably annoying, yes, justifiably annoying. But if I now have a risk assessment on my tablet, which is even sent with my service report at the same time, and I can take a structured look for myself, is that okay, is that okay?

Is that all right? Then I can easily deal with this topic myself and it’s easy for me to deal with it.

Yes, and could I now also say, for example, I’m talking to a customer in sales about certain products?

If I could then also say, “Man, I also have the possibility within the framework of this query process of determining requirements that I could then have something like I say classic objections there on the tablet, so I always said to myself, we are refueling this to some extent with articles, there would also be the possibility that I say, now I am somehow out.

Now the person says Bonaqua is just sprayed-on water, and then I say oh, what are the counter-arguments under certain circumstances that something like that would be feasible.

Yes, of course. And things like that can be shown/hidden.

I also get a certain objection and it says that it never pays off. And then, of course, I’m shown the argumentation aids I need or perhaps a calculation I can make by saying “pondering”.

Let’s take this back to our example How long does it currently take you to fill out a piece of paper?

How long does it take me to write down the question?

That was just it. You need an hour for that, you need ten minutes for that and we need another 20 back here. 20 minutes.

And how many of these do you make a day? Yes, 100 of them. And then when I’ve finished the multiplication immediately and can tell you, you don’t want to save €2,000 a day.

This means that the app could even calculate locally. In other words, it can not only receive things and send them back, but also calculate them locally.

That’s brilliant, of course. Well, that’s because I don’t know it like that.

I’ve only ever come across solutions that say I can practically refuel and I can practically deliver back to the tanker.

That’s always the solution I know, but I’ve never seen it in this form before. That’s why it’s so exciting. I think I could go on talking to them for hours.

I find it very exciting. I also hope that you, dear listeners, have taken one or two things away with you in terms of ideas. And I know that I have a lot of customers who have great systems, where I always say, if there’s an app for it, then the best solution is often to use the manufacturer’s app.

For example, I have Daylite as a CRM system, there’s an app for it and then I say wonderful, it’s fully integrated, it works, but I work a lot with Bosch Buderus, there are manufacturers who have a lot to offer.

have a great solution for dispatching and everything. But they don’t have an iPad solution.

So, and then you can say, well, now you have the chance to get this data again on the iPad and then on the Android device. And you don’t have an island, you have a dinghy, which is well connected and says, “I have the tanker, I have the speedboat or the speedboats, but they all communicate via radio, but we can all move ourselves and not just with remote control, to stay in this image.

So I think it’s very exciting or I have a lot of customers in the Raiffeisen banking sector, there were also some who have already said I export information from the core banking system, there is an import function and then I can do things not only online but also offline when I am on site with customers, because the head office says we are doing a purely online approach because we say everything is browser-based.

But even when I’m not in the basement, I think we’ve all had the situation from time to time where an Internet connection just jerks, it hangs, it’s either not there at all or it’s slow. And then you’re always.

I always say that my blood pressure rises when I’m with a customer and I want to show them something that doesn’t work. That’s why I also like offline solutions like the ones that are integrated again.

So wonderful, I say thank you very, very much, where can we find you, what is the best way to reach you, if someone says, man, I would like to get in touch with Mr. Grosche.

Airform.de is the Internet address. And of course Klaus.Grosche@Airform.de and we reply immediately. Wonderful, I’ll link that again too!

Well then, thank you very much and I wish you continued success when it comes to switching on your brain first, then simply using technology and technology. See you next time and thank you very much for your time, Mr. Grosche.

Thank you very much. Bye.

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This episode is about the digitization of forms. Have fun listening.

Further links

Airform

Introduction

You are very welcome. Another installment of first turn on your brain and technology.

And you know when it comes to switching on your brain first and technology, sometimes I give impulses and sometimes other great people give me impulses.

people, namely Mr. Grosche and Mr. Grosche. I got to know him through a mutual friend of ours, Stephan Heinrich, and Stephan Heinrich always deals with the topic of how to combine sales and technology in a sensible way.

And that is exactly what Mr. Grosche is talking about, because in Germany I always say forms, forms from the cradle to the grave. And I think you have a very, very clever solution for this. And before I tell you a lot about yourself, why don’t you tell me what you do, Mr. Grosche?

Yes, thank you very much for the invitation. It’s actually exactly what we do. Forms, forms, forms. But the background to how this came about is actually the important part. I’ve been in this IT industry for many, many years, over 30 years in fact, and have spent a lot of my time working with CRM systems and ERP systems.

CRM systems have been introduced in some very large companies that operate worldwide. And no matter where they introduced it, there was always an issue at the end where they said, yes, but now we have to connect our sales people, our technicians or our inspection people or whoever, and that became complicated in the classic systems.

A key system that we have for sales, for example, was Siebel. Which was later bought by Oracle. If you then wanted to connect external people to the employees, the investment was enormous and the handling was poor. So it was really diametrically opposed.

And the even bigger problem was that a large ship certification company in Hamburg, for example, told me. If I now have to invite my 700 people from all over the world to train them here in Hamburg, then let’s work out together how much it will cost.

Yes, and if I’m cheeky enough to say, why not paper forms, because then I can save myself all this IT stuff.

Yes, that’s a great solution. These paper forms are lying around in the car. The children play, then build swallows with them, they arrive too late at the customer’s back office, the employees can’t read what’s written on them. They write the wrong thing, calculate, maybe a gear instead of a gearbox.

And all these problems are naturally connected to it. And that’s exactly what companies are always struggling with. On the one hand with the manageability of applications in it, but on the other hand also with the need for optimization, which they simply cannot organize properly by hand.

To solve this in IT cleanly, but not only cleanly, but, as Albert Einstein said, as simply as possible, but not simpler.

Yes, that’s wonderful. I think that’s a great quote. I always say two things: first switch on your brain, then the technology. So you don’t have to do every little thing just because it’s digital. On the other hand, I do say that sensible digitalization makes sense. Then simply use technology. And I like the addition you say. As simple as it gets, but not simpler is also a great statement.

And what I thought was great is that you also have two videos on YouTube, which we are happy to link to this episode, where you explain your systems once in short form and once in long form. And the logic behind them. And what I found very exciting was that you once made a commercial calculation where you said how much such a topic doesn’t pay off. What is the basic idea behind this commercial calculation that you made?

I found that very interesting. We have a company as a customer in the energy sector that installs and manufactures combined heat and power plants. And they had exactly this problem, this paper problem, and we had the management was aware that it had to be digitized and also had the confidence in us to solve these issues.

But you said, yes, we also want to do the math on Invest afterwards, we really want to know exactly, and we went there with them and really did the math, found out how long it takes them to fill out a form by hand.

Get out the slip of paper, fill in the address, everything that goes with it? How long does it take them to pick out materials, write the numbers on the forms, add the quantity and the whole thing has to be relative. And if the employees then – I don’t want to say they don’t feel like it – are simply and naturally so busy with their actual work that they say yes, that’s not so important here, because I have to get the machine running and not just get the slips of paper running.

We have analyzed all these problems with them and also what is behind them in the back office.

The computers that the notes come into the back office too late, are collected once a week or perhaps later because an employee is on vacation.

They then have to be typed out again. This also gives rise to queries. There are also errors, no question. And all of this together led to the fact that the post-calculation, as we did together with the customer, showed that they had the investment out within 3/4 of a year. And 3/4 of a year is a word that means within a financial year, so anyone who doesn’t do that is stupid.

So I say now, that’s really great and it’s always like that, I always hear that it’s

yes, that they cost, well, we kind of have them anyway, but if you really look at it commercially and then digitization makes sense.

So that’s how it is when I see someone, there are such stupid examples of digitalization for me, I recently came into a training room as a trainer and there was such a digital flipchart and on the one hand the pen wasn’t there, so it couldn’t be used at all.

Secondly, it was a flipchart, which was black and white instead of bright colors, so you could only draw on it in gray, where I said, “How much did it cost?

And when I say that someone didn’t understand digitization, they translated a medium one-to-one into digital because it’s always cool, because you have to digitize somehow, but they didn’t make it better, they made it worse.

And I think it’s an example of how you can make them more productive. And when I look at it now, I think that was eight years ago.

For the K’Licht advertising company Schreib und Keppler, we digitized installation, service and repair reports on the iPad and that’s exactly what they said. The fitters just filled in half of it. In other words, all the consumables weren’t on there, they entered kilometer zone two, but then didn’t enter the number of kilometers. And of course you can do that on the

Do not check the plausibility of the paper. We drove around with these forms for a week, sometimes even longer, which means that in the end they were only able to write an invoice four weeks later. And by digitizing this form, we now have.

Writing the invoice the next day. And that, I think, in addition to the question of how much time I can save, is also an additional effect of saying that I have an extreme liquidity advantage, because if I have billable services, then I simply get the money earlier.

So this is also an important issue for many people in the SME sector. So I think that’s why it’s important. And with everything you do in IT, there’s always the question of course it’s nice if it’s cool, but it either has to make customer service better, so that customers say great, or it has to increase productivity and ultimately contribute to the return on investment.

I think that’s great. And what I think is great is that you almost mentioned it in a subordinate clause to say, oh, this issue of connectivity, because I can still remember that the iPad side was relatively easy to get the big one out like we had.

The customer has Navision as an ERP system and this connection cost us a lot of gray hair in the team, so we really struggled with it.

So what is your experience of connecting background systems?

Uh, let’s take a brief historical look. When I look at systems like the ones we used to implement in the CRM area, one of the most expensive things in the implementations was the connection. And when we first designed the concept, we said, no, an application like this has to be as simple as possible. And that is exactly what we have achieved.

We are at the lowest level, we also connect databases. They don’t have to be databases. The most challenging case, for example, was a customer who had an extra Excel sheet for every receipt. But we can also connect things like that. And the integration?

First of all, read integration is really one of the easiest exercises for us because we have chosen a very, very simple method in our concept. Writing into the ERP is of course a question mark, because I also need the customer’s ERP partner for this. Or, of course, if the customer has the skills themselves, the skills there too.

But we also went there and said that all the data we collect through our forms is automatically entered into tables when new fields are added. The customer can define new fields themselves, let’s say a single field in an existing form.

Additional recording also takes five minutes – not even three minutes – and automatically creates database fields etc., provided you have the necessary authorizations. In other words, we have already fully automated all the processes behind it.

The customer does not need any technical know-how at this point. Only if this data is to be written back into the ERP is coordination necessary, of course. But that’s easy because our specifications are also simple. Super.

And as you know, I also did an episode with Alf Ruppert. On the subject of Daylite. That’s the CRM system that I also use and I also referred to it in this episode.

On the one hand, I like to show cool solutions in my episodes and I think Airform is an extremely smart solution and I’d like to take the opportunity to simply convey a few basic principles to you here and say, no matter which provider you choose, what are the important criteria?

And I think we’ve already seen here, firstly, why does it make sense at all? Because I get my money earlier, I save a lot of handling costs that I have with me.

I think the second issue, which is very, very important, is this issue of simple integration, that you simply have the option of getting the data out of the system and getting it back again.

Because these double-entry activities are again time-consuming and lead to errors. These classic things, so that’s something you should be aware of, I always say that there are few bad solutions, but there are many unsuitable solutions.

That means you always have to see which solution fits. And my experience is also I started at Nixdorf in 1988, so I’ve been young for a bit longer.

And the experience I’ve just gained is always the interface problem between the systems, which always makes it difficult. Now there are systems that have dispatching, where I say, I have fitters here, I have corresponding service orders, I distribute them via my system and then I blow them out. Your system certainly supports this, as I understand it. And then there are also systems where you say, “Man, maybe I don’t have this dispatching at all. What is your approach to dispatching orders in your system?

A brief addition to the advantages or the important requirements. A small addition is. We also want the people who work with it outside to enjoy working with it. A very, very important topic.

If they have fun with it, if they really enjoy using it, they will also use it productively. If they have an aversion to software from the outset, then the data quality will also be poor afterwards. Very, very important So the fitters usually really enjoy filling out forms. It’s their favorite activity. That’s why they didn’t go into the commercial sector, but into the industrial sector, because they said, I really want to fill out forms.

So experience shows that you get low motivation and it is a very important point to simply make the systems as easy to use as possible for the users.

And before the users can process it, such orders have to be distributed somehow. So if I say now that I don’t have such a solution, I think they also offer something along those lines.

We have a central tool, the Airform Manager, in which all relevant orders are visible and can either be read from the ERP system or entered directly in the Manager on an ad hoc basis.

Let’s assume an industrial company that has service technicians out in the field, and on Friday afternoons at 5 p.m. a call comes in that someone urgently needs a service because something is broken and the ERP has already been shut down.

Yes, too. The people who might create such complex orders are already gone, on vacation or at the weekend. Then of course you can also create orders directly yourself.

These orders are always visible to the manager and can always be distributed by the manager via a planning board, always to customers. So I think you even have it so that you can take a look at it.

So then maybe one or the other can imagine it even better. Perhaps that would also be an additional way to show it, because I found it very, very exciting, because with many solutions you can get things in and out, but I also found this plant panel solution very smart.

We can see them wonderfully there. We have the planning board. On the left-hand side we see orders to be distributed to the information displayed here, which can of course be set by the customer themselves. After all, we don’t invent the information that is essential for the customer, but the customer determines it. And I have chosen a selection here.

Current service reports that currently need to be distributed to employees, in this case those based in the Düsseldorf region. Of course, this is regionally limited according to the main region, we can divide it up according to zip code areas etc. pp.

But I’ll just take the simplest case. And say, this order that I have up here, I just want to have it distributed on the planning board on Friday, October 28.

I take it, drag it over and the job is done, and in this case, done means a bit more than just “I see a green box.” Because at the same time, you have to scroll here, the journey times have been calculated. If the customer drives to the customer today or now for the relevant appointment, he has a quarter of an hour’s travel time. He has a working time of six hours and a departure time of 15 minutes.

And if I say that’s enough for the order, that’s how it should be done, then I press the release button here and everything else in the background runs automatically. The process that runs now is our system white.

The order must be sent to the technician Klaus Bube, who then obtains the relevant additional information. Perhaps it contains material specifications or old service reports need to be provided at the same time, for example, so that he can see what his colleague has done there in the past.

Such information is all pulled together directly from the ERP, perhaps also open items or whatever – many things are conceivable. And this order is automatically made available to the technician. Based on the color, I can now see that the thing is already on its way, so the mail is out – you could say.

Yes, I can see all the other colors here, orders have already been processed. These colors can be set in the system. But I can also put orders in here in a completely different way. Because if I say that pulling in each order individually is far too much work for me because I have so many orders, then of course I can go and say, dear system, pick out all the orders that are optimal for this employee who is in this region, so that he can process them in a certain order and the employee is still at home on Friday afternoons at 16:00, because he attaches great importance to this.

Yes, it’s always like that, he has to pay attention. That’s great. In your system, when it goes to the fitter and I often have this issue that he may need certain parts, i.e. small materials, where I know that many contractors also struggle with the fact that small materials are consumed but not written down and therefore not invoiced.

Is there a possibility that you can also give out article masters, so that a fitter can then say, “I have just installed this three-eighths inch angle valve somewhere here, etc., so that not everyone calls it something else.

One says 3/8 inch angle valve, the next says angle valve, the next says 3/8 and then you always have to bring the same article back together again afterwards, but instead you say, you have to use the same article.

has the option of outputting a part of the article master, which the fitter can then also select on the end device.

Does it work for you? Of course. We can give out complete article masters, which are also pre-selected, so that nonsensical articles are not given over.

That’s exactly what I mean. Such a part of the article originates very precisely. Then brochure sleeves are also included in article masters, but these have no relevance for the technician.

But not only that, we can also transfer any amount of data. So if someone now says I don’t just need the articles, but I also need a very specific amount of data that I can use for other selections, then we can do that too.

So this is completely independent at this point and, very importantly, on the client side, i.e. the technician side, I have a full text search for these articles. So I don’t have to say, I know the article number starts with two or I have to search for three eighths or anything like that.

I can also search full text in combination, which makes it very easy for technicians to access this data.

Yes, great, because that’s always the way to say it. Who has the article numbers in their head? You don’t always have the original box available somewhere where you can see the item number or a QR code to scan it. That’s the challenge in practice. I always see this when I’m at conferences, where people like that say, yes, I can pull the whole article master over there, then I say, I want to have that as a fitter for the brochure sleeves you mentioned.

Then it backfires, they say yes, then I’ve got all this irrelevant stuff, what’s the point?

Because then it won’t be done again. So that’s why I think it’s great and we’ve already talked about the installer side. As far as I know, they support all common platforms, whether it’s Android or iOS.

So for the common platform, you then also offer the end device, i.e. the solution for the end device.

Everything is correct, including Windows, even for Windows. What is it? No, joking aside. So all platform mobile, that means it’s not an iPad-only solution now, but on which platforms is it available?

It’s also available on Windows, Android and iOS and it’s the same code base. This means that we are actually only developing a single application that looks almost identical on all three platforms.

Almost not at all, because the menu navigation is slightly different. But that’s the only difference. It is 100% identical within the forms.

Yes, great. Then you’ll have a chance to show us what your site looks like on the tablet.

Yes, with pleasure. I’ll just switch over. Wonderful. I can already see professionals on the road.

That’s great. It gives you a better idea of what it looks like. But we’ve now seen what it looks like in the workshop, in the office, in dispatching.

And now let’s take a look at the page. This looks like what it looks like on an iPad. But as you say here, on Android devices on Windows devices it’s simple. There are a few elements that look different depending on the system, but the basic logic is the same. So if I were to put a new device next to it, you wouldn’t see any difference at all in what we’re responsible for, i.e. this surface, and you’d be on a Windows interface.

I put this Wait up here on the six. The left side because Windows devices are almost always used in landscape format. Because otherwise it would be weird. It’s already directly in the application. We can also see what information is available here in terms of forms. Once, I see that there is a new form here. It’s probably only just arrived. This is something that I’m supposed to work on today from 8:00 to 14:29. This is exactly the service report that we released earlier on the other side.

Yes, so you see, we are here live, not faked, but really here, so that you can also see the process.

Yes, exactly, we’re over here and I’ll briefly explain the list again and we had an idea when we designed this software many years ago, we said it had to be as simple as an e-mail system. That’s why there are new reports here that I’ve received.

There are some that I have in progress. In addition, what do I have to do today, because that’s always an important aspect, of course, it’s exactly before and there’s a long before and I think every person today who has a cell phone or something similar already knows what to do with the terms.

Great. When I go in here, additional information is requested, namely whether I want to start processing the order. The reason for this is that the dispatcher at the head office can then see from the color whether this order has already been started or not.

And here I am in my forms. We have taken an example form here and we have just talked about the topic of materials and here we make it easier for the technicians if possible.

Because this job is supposed to work with the specified materials in a certain activity or specification, it could just as well be specified materials where it says I used, I used, I used, so that I don’t even have to look for it anymore.

I think they even have that at the bottom, if I see here. Additional material, I think, if you want to scroll further up, is included.

Here you can say yes and additional material. He happens to know that sinks start with a two. You could use other terms and you could also practically specify material here in the area by saying that this is definitely a filter that you have to replace, for example, and then I can give him the item number of this filter so that firstly he doesn’t have to type it in and secondly, in case of doubt, he even knows which box to put it in. He has to reach into his car. If he has maybe five or six different filters, then he doesn’t have to go in and say “Well, which filter is that?

But know from the outset which filter I need to take with me? Exactly. And in addition, uh, many of our customers do this, who say I don’t just want to record here what quantity or in what quantity I use here, but I also want to know at the same time what vehicle stock I have.

Great. Some materials are always in a vehicle and if he uses something from the vehicle stock and he comes back to the back office the next time, he can use the warehouse.

Automatically replenished. This means that he may have made four orders that day and then used up items and then you can see immediately what needs to be replenished.

If I say I have a target stock somewhere that I then have to replenish.

That’s exactly how great it is. So there are just things that I keep saying, there are just so many. Of course, you can also do things like this with Microsoft Forms as part of M365 when it comes to simple forms. But if you really think about it in terms of what’s behind it all, then there’s a lot more behind it in practice.

And then with Microsoft Forms I can’t just say I’m going to transfer article masters.

Such things don’t just go back in one direction, which is perfectly fine for many applications.

I do that a lot. I train many field service organizations in the productive use of iPads. And when we say in advance of such a training course, for example, what questions do you have, what tips do you have, etc., is it purely one-way communication in the classic Survey Monkey way?

Wonderful. Perfectly adequate. So always the simplest possible technology, but not simpler. In other words, it wouldn’t be enough for a service area. That’s why I’m a big fan of tablets, whether in the Android or iPad world.

Let me put it this way: fitters are not the most delicate of people, so if you say that I can work with a thick finger

I can work with my thick finger and can simply tap on it with KuDiWufis with short sausage fingers like I have.

I think that’s almost more suitable in practice than working with laptops.

What is your opinion? That’s really the case and with a laptop I have to work with the mouse or the trackpad or something similar. That’s more strenuous and the laptop has to be parked somewhere.

I can simply hold an iPad or an Android tablet in my hand or, if I’m traveling a bit more roughly, put it in a decent case where I can easily grasp it from behind.

And people can simply deal with that better. It’s easier and that applies to us too. We also like working with an iPad, especially when we’re on the move.

Nobody would take out their laptop at the airport today if they also had an iPad.

Yes, and what you say At the airport we still have the chance to use the laptop in the sense of the word, to put the thing on our lap.

When I look The reality of work for many service technicians is that they can’t sit down anywhere or have a desk or anything. So I also accompanied the Lorenz Snack Group to a certain extent when it came to the iPad roll-out.

For example, because they are also in supermarkets, we have bought iPad sleeves that have these hand loops or also from Transgourmet, which are then in the hotel, catering and communal catering sectors.

Then they talk to the kitchen cop, not necessarily always at the desk, but in the warehouse, and then they have a case where they say, with a strap on the back, you can hold it in your hand, hold it in one hand and then type with the other hand.

And these are things that are always important in my experience, that you really look at the reality of the lives of the people who work, or if you look at Claas, they make combine harvesters, they make things like this for farmers.

I say to the farmer, when they’re in the barn, I don’t know if a laptop is the right tool for the job. So you might even have to think about the cover. And the other day I had this with the light advertiser.

A fitter’s iPad fell off the scaffolding on the third floor. Fortunately, we had an Otterbox Defender around it. The device was still intact.

So that means, do it on a laptop, it’s going to be difficult. So that’s another question. Or very practically with Schreib und. Keppler. They have these iPads and in their vehicles they practically have these things next to the seats where they used to throw in their clipboards, so they just throw the iPad in there.

So, and the guys don’t treat it so gently, they have an iPad, they throw it in there, so that’s something like that. And when I look, I used to be told that Apple is expensive.

In the meantime, people are really saying that the simplest iPad, which has just been refurbished, i.e. which now even has the camera across the top, which has 5G and things like that, somehow costs €400,500.

So you’re not even in a particularly expensive situation and so the things just work and that’s the way it is and I think it’s great when they take advantage of the opportunities like this and just as you said, if someone is also working with Android, it’s the same.

So, your app is adapted for a wide variety of areas. I don’t think Windows tablets exist in this form any more, do they? So in the market, or do you also have it on Windows tablets? No longer relevant in the market?

Yes, well, that was somewhere, because Microsoft’s idea was to say well, man, we’re actually the jack of all trades, where we say we can do Windows, we can do tablets.

The problem is, as you say, 1% market share. This means that, unfortunately, even if you look beyond that, if you have fitters who have tablets, then ideally they should also have their emails.

They should be able to make other notes that are not order-related. They should have smart apps on them so that you can say, “Man, we’ve done it now.” At Schreib and Keppler, for example, they also had the system functions such as where is someone here, for example, so that the fitters could share the locations with each other and also share the locations with the assembly manager.

Not without their knowledge, of course, but the assembly manager could or can see on his iPad where my guys are at the moment. And if a repair comes in, he can see which of the guys is closest and can send the order to them.

And this is something that is now included in the Apple world simply through this where is function, for example, where you used to need very expensive fleet management solutions.

So that’s why I’m a bit, I won’t say completely neutral, more on the Apple side.when we did the interview, I didn’t even think that they would even participate from Mac.so every platform has its advantages and disadvantages.so what are your experiences.on which platforms is your system mainly used?

As soon as it comes to tablets, our recommendation is clearly Apple. And for several reasons. For one. One key reason is that I get operating system updates for much, much longer. A very important point, yes. A very important point. The second reason is that I have no chance of somehow stealing the data underneath, which would of course be much, much easier with other systems.

No chance with Apple. I can make a clean backup system that I can rely on 100% and the ergonomics of the devices are simply excellent.

There’s no other way to put it. We have really been aware of this issue for many, many years now and have made this comparison with customers time and again.

It’s just like you say, an iPad is affordable today and if I want to use a stylus for typing, then that same affordable iPad is also available with a stylus. There is no reason to do anything else. Some companies just have system decisions that go in other directions.

And that’s why we naturally support Android and Windows just as much. In the education sector, I would say that there are still a relatively large number of laptops on the road, simply because it was traditionally the equipment of technicians, but as soon as we have to deal with new installations, I can say that the majority are iOS or tablets, as well as a not insignificant proportion of phones.

Yes, that’s also definitely a point. Especially if you now have a phablet, as it’s so nicely called in new German, so that’s where the Android people were before with the Galaxy Note.

I was already on the verge of getting a Galaxy Note after Apple took a long time when they brought out the Max, the large devices, that’s definitely a size where I say, then I can also get forms with it. So that’s a great way of thinking and then I don’t need two devices for the fitters, I have one device for the fitters. So in absolute terms, the proportion of tablets to smartphones.

I don’t think I can say that. But I can describe it the other way around.

We always have sales people who are on the road, who are doing reports, who perhaps have to photograph situations or the like.

Then I’m more likely to come across iPhones. But if it’s technicians who also have to search for extensive materials and the like, then it’s more likely to be tablets.

Comprehensible. And it’s the right thing to do. You always have to look at what the right solution is. So again, there is no such thing as good or bad. There are just suitable in this area. Question I always hear people saying that the future is online.

Why do I need an app?

I just do it in the browser. What’s your take on saying always on and screw the platform? The future is always a bit of a crystal ball. Maybe the future is online. But with the current infrastructure conditions we have here in Germany, for example, that’s not the case.

First of all, not the case. The second thing is that online is a bit difficult in the basement. So if I have technicians who also have to run around in basements or in new development areas or anywhere else and have to record their things, then it’s quite possible that they won’t have reception. But they want to continue working properly. And that’s exactly what we do.

We are completely offline-capable. This means that the technical report I have downloaded or synchronized here is now available to me online and offline. The materials are only available offline. I have everything with me and I’m not reliant on being able to connect to the outside world.

First in the basement and only install the power station there as an example. Then I can do my work when I’m out in the fresh air again. The whole thing synchronizes automatically and my data is back in the back.

You don’t even know how happy I am because I’m there. I feel like that sometimes. Like I’m an old fart. Even now, because I’m always at conferences, then the I’ll say somewhat younger IT consultants come and say what do you old farts want?

I say today work again Windows, terminal server and everything favorite solution, etc., where I always say have you ever been in the boiler room?

You’re the runner-up and I say have a virtual session on your smartphone.

Have fun with it.

So you need good reading glasses, and that’s always where I say that theory and practice differ for me. And ultimately the acceptance of such solutions is also immediately gone when you realize, okay, this isn’t YouTube.

And then people say don’t do that shit, I’m not doing it. And in times when there’s a shortage of skilled workers, I can only say eat it or die, you have to do it.

Then people say, oh gosh, go to the employer where I have systems that I enjoy working with. Just like you said earlier. So that’s always a great friend, also always from solutions.

And if I’ve understood it correctly, you don’t have to manually say, I’m uploading or downloading something, but it’s like with emails, that I say, the moment it has an Internet connection, it synchronizes in both directions.

Right? Exactly. That’s great, because I think that’s always important, because if you then somehow have a system where you say, now I have to actively upload something, I have to upload it more actively.

People forget that. So it’s about my own data backup, any data backup that I haven’t set up automatically, I don’t do. So that’s why I set up the systems so that it runs automatically.

And when it comes to data backup, perhaps that’s also an issue. And I think we can ignore the iPad point of view again now, if I look at this topic online offline that we have, the question is cloud or not cloud because there are people who say cloud means cloud because it steals data and there are many solutions that are cloud-based.

Like SmaoOne, for example, or CraftNote in the craftsmen’s sector, where you say, “I have solutions like a cloud available.” Now I have many customers who say, “I think it’s only semi cool if I have a cloud solution.” I would like to install it on my own systems.

What is your approach to the topic?

Our basic strategy is that it is on prem, i.e. installed in your own environment.

Basically, if someone says they absolutely want to have it in the cloud, then it’s not an issue. They can set up a cloud themselves and put it in there. But we don’t jump to the cloud because the sovereignty of the data should lie 100% with the customer and not somewhere else.

And customers actually love that too. Because the infrastructure is in place at the customer’s premises. Every customer has a normal server structure, be it outsourced, with a service provider or just whatever.

And yes, hardware requirements are so minimal that he can really, I say in this day and age, go and say push a button a new virtual server.

Two services are added and the database connection is added and that’s it. That means I don’t need to buy a quantum computer or a new computer.

So that means minimal answers. But that’s very interesting, because that’s what I thought when Stephan Heinrich made contact with us. I don’t know of any other solutions that are also on premise and yet don’t mean a huge data center, huge expenses, etc.

Because the first question is always to say okay, I can have it myself. The second question I always ask, as mentioned above, is how complicated is it to install?

Because of course the cloud often has the advantage that I have a browser interface, I can quickly make my form theme through. That means the entry threshold is low.

How do you support companies when you say, “Gee, it’s all kind of complicated with the setup”?

Yes, of course we work closely with the customer’s service provider. But in today’s world with the virtualization of servers, it’s really the case that you almost only have the push of a button to set up a system, to make a basic configuration.

I think we’re arguing here in-house about whether we need to charge for two hours or four hours as that would be very, very quick to do. Of course, fine-tuning with the customer for forms and so on. That kind of thing takes time, of course, because you have to discuss what makes sense and what should we leave out? Or you just said that in a subordinate clause, which I think is really important. I can still remember the Schreib and Keppler project very well.

We sometimes had eight-page forms and they said, yes, we have to bring them into the digital world and then I said stop!

Before we do that, please explain to me what you do with each individual field. Some were clear, such as travel times etc., which don’t need to be discussed at length, but there were some fields where I then said, what is he doing with the field?

And then the two owners sat opposite me and then Phillip said, do you know what we’re going to do with it? Andreas I don’t know either.

So, if the two owners are not the third generation to do this and have already started there as children, then we’ve got ourselves a new business.

If they didn’t know, we said So, now let’s ask the people in Despatching? Now the assembly manager was, say, come here, assembly manager.

Do you need the information, he says. Nope, the fitters would never get it anyway. So it’s empty. And what did we do? We just left it out. In other words, we reduced it from eight pages to three.

Acceptance was also a major factor, with the fitters saying how cool is that?

I don’t even have eight pages, I only have to fill out three pages. At last you’ve taken out the shit where we said no one would fill it out anyway, it doesn’t make sense.

We also included fitters in this project because we said that these are the guys who work outside.

I also went out with fitters beforehand and said but what does your reality look like, which I always recommend in such projects, because I am sometimes involved as an external project manager and then provide training for the people.

And that’s where it’s important to really work from practical experience. That’s why I’m pleased. I rarely experience such grounded, pragmatic IT people like you, who simply come from a practical background. Because I think that’s the important thing, I also said to you after Stephan Heinrich brought us together that we absolutely have to do an interview. I think that’s totally brilliant.

Yes, that’s exactly the thing. When we sit down with the customer and discuss things with them, the first thing we tell them from the outset is that we are prepared to do anything they want, but only if we understand why they need it.

Yes, first you switch on the brain, then the technology. That’s exactly the point, yes, perhaps to conclude, what is your license model, i.e. what is your starting point?

We have a normal purchase license with a corresponding maintenance thing behind it, so that you automatically get your new version and you also participate in the ongoing development.

Yes, we also have individual rental models where customers say okay, I’d rather rent, which we then calculate individually. And yes, those are the two models.

Yes, great, and that’s my point – it’s already difficult to find a non-subscription solution today. It can also be quite attractive to say that you have a one-off investment here and then just have it. I think they have a maintenance fee of around 18% somewhere. So if I remember correctly from our preliminary discussion, we also talked about lower running costs and what you said earlier, that it usually pays for itself within a financial year. That’s why I find it so exciting. And my starting point is always to say that I always look at solutions on the market that are available today, that you can use today. And we’ve talked a lot about the service sector. Fitters.

So what other areas of application are there where your solutions can also be used as form-based solutions? Another area is, of course, sales.

Yes, exactly what Stephan Heinrich says again and again is to ask some important, decisive things in sales and to really always do this, to pay attention to certain things, to support sales talks and also to bring information into the back office afterwards, where you can actually make a reasonable assessment.

What are the opportunities we have out there right now or don’t have out there right now?

Another thing that is also done is that customers have to do their TÜV reports for their machines regularly, which means they have to come with their own people.

The safety of drilling machines, wheel loaders, large cranes and so on.

Assess every twelve months and this is done with our software. Or we had this earlier as an example or as a keyword in passing in the form that I had called up.

Risk assessment is becoming more and more of an issue these days. I have a customer who makes these Air-BA dampers, these smoke extraction hoods, for industrial buildings. And you can imagine that if your technician is supposed to repair, maintain or whatever, he first has to carry out a risk assessment.

In other words, to put it simply, he must confirm that there is currently no snow on the roof.

Yes, running around on an ice surface up there, running the risk of falling off. And so there are a lot of risk assessments that have to be done these days. And if you don’t do them and something happens, you get into a lot of trouble with the employers’ liability insurance association.

That’s right. It’s an important topic that you don’t really have on your radar. And I’m still familiar with it. I used to be responsible for a service organization and I know what the employers’ liability insurance association is.

So that’s why it was always the guys who were, I’ll say, justifiably annoying, yes, justifiably annoying. But if I now have a risk assessment on my tablet, which is even sent at the same time as my service report, and I can look at it in a structured way for myself, is that okay, is that okay?

Is that all right? Then I can easily deal with this topic myself and it’s easy for me to deal with it.

Yes, and could I now also say, for example, I’m talking to a customer in sales about certain products?

If I could then also say, “Man, I also have the possibility within the framework of this query process of determining requirements that I could then have something like I say classic objections there on the tablet, so I always said to myself, we are refueling this to some extent with articles, there would also be the possibility that I say, now I am somehow out.

Now the person says Bonaqua is just sprayed-on water, and then I say oh, what are the counter-arguments under certain circumstances that something like that would be feasible.

Yes, of course. And things like that can be shown/hidden.

I also get a certain objection and it says that it never pays off. And then, of course, I’m then shown the argumentation aids I need or perhaps a calculation I can make by saying “brooding”.

Let’s take this back to our example How long does it currently take you to fill out a piece of paper?

How long does it take me to write down the question?

That was just it. You need an hour for that, you need ten minutes for that and we need another 20 back here. 20 minutes.

And how many of these do you make a day? Yes, 100 of them. And then when I’ve finished the multiplication immediately and can tell you, you don’t want to save €2,000 a day.

This means that the app could even calculate locally. In other words, it can not only receive things and send them back, but also calculate them locally.

That’s brilliant, of course. Well, that’s because I don’t know it like that.

I only ever know solutions that say I can practically refuel and I can practically deliver back to the tanker.

That’s always the solution I know, but I’ve never seen it in this form before. That’s why it’s so exciting. I think I could go on talking to them for hours.

I find it very exciting. I also hope that you, dear listeners, have taken one or two things away with you in terms of ideas. And I know I have a lot of customers who have great systems, where I always say, if there’s an app for it, then the best solution is often to use the manufacturer’s app.

For example, I have Daylite as a CRM system, there’s an app for it and then I say wonderful, it’s fully integrated, it works, but I work a lot with Bosch Buderus, there are manufacturers who have a lot to offer.

have a great solution for dispatching and everything. But they don’t have an iPad solution.

So, and then you can say, well, now you have the chance to get this data again on the iPad and then on the Android device. And you don’t have an island, you have a dinghy, which is well connected and says, “I have the tanker, I have the speedboat or the speedboats, but they all communicate via radio, but we can all move ourselves and not just with remote control, to stay in this image.

So I think it’s very exciting or I have a lot of customers in the Raiffeisen banking sector, there were also some who have already said I export information from the core banking system, there is an import function and then I can do things not only online but also offline when I am on site with customers, because the head office says we are doing a purely online approach because we say everything is browser-based.

But even when I’m not in the basement, I think we’ve all had the situation from time to time where an Internet connection simply jerks, hangs, is either not there at all or is slow. And then you’re always.

I always say that my blood pressure rises when I’m with a customer and I want to show them something that doesn’t work. That’s why I also like offline solutions like the ones that are integrated again.

So wonderful, I say thank you very, very much, where can we find you, what is the best way to reach you, if someone says, man, I would like to get in touch with Mr. Grosche.

Airform.de is the Internet address. And of course Klaus.Grosche@Airform.de and we reply immediately. Wonderful, I’ll link that again too!

Well then, thank you very much and I wish you continued success when it comes to switching on your brain first, then simply using technology and technology. See you next time and thank you very much for your time, Mr. Grosche.

Thank you very much. Bye.

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