Effective team communication in tax firms

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Introduction

Nice to have you with us again for another episode of Digital 4 Productivity. And don’t let the background noise bother you. I’m on the road.

Another exciting interview this week, this time with Philipp Sterzinger from Meisterkanzlei. I always recommend my dear colleague Lang and Philipp Sterzinger in my iPad seminars for DATEV, because they are a tax firm that also deals with how tax consultants and tax firms can work even more productively. On the one hand, I always recommend the whole topic of OneNote. There’s also a great course by my colleague Lang. And of course, technology is always a tool that only works when teams function well. And Philipp Sterzinger deals explicitly with the topic of effective team communication in tax consulting firms. You can look forward to this exciting interview.

Thorsten Jekel

A warm welcome back to this community episode today. I’ll start with a warm welcome to the topic: Switch on the brain first, then the technology. Today we’re doing a special episode for tax consulting firms, because that’s where both my guest today and I are working, although we’re doing a joint episode here. My guest is Philipp Sterzinger, but I’m also his guest today, because we’re going to distribute this across both of our channels. What topic are you on, Philipp?

Philipp Sterzinger

My current topic is team development in tax firms and, of course, Thorsten Jekel, we both have the disc model in common. And that’s what we’re going to talk about today. I’ll also do a little intro for myself now. Hello, dear Meisterkanzlei podcast listeners. Today, for the first time, a mixed episode with the lovely Thorsten Jekel. Many people know him from the area of using the iPad effectively in the law firm, which he offers as a seminar at DATEV. We always get in touch, exchange ideas and now have fun listening.

Thorsten Jekel

Yes, wonderful. For one thing, I’ve already done a joint episode with my colleague Lang, where we talked about Outlook and OneNote in particular. You are always a reference for me as a master law firm. And that’s always our running gag when I’m at a seminar somewhere. I always show your video, both online and in person, and then I usually send over a photo and say: Here, you’re back on air. And that’s the topic: what does the topic of technology, which we both use, have to do with the topic of disc and personality? Well, I always have this motto to say: First turn on the brain, then the technology. I just gave another talk last week on the topic of hybrid leadership and it was all about saying that technology is of course an important tool, but why is this topic of different types of behavior, types of behavior? Why is this such an important topic, especially in tax firms, Philipp?

Philipp Sterzinger

Yes, because we also have different types and I’m going to go beyond the organizational boundaries. We have suppliers, we also have customers, i.e. clients, and we’re always dealing with people. And in my consulting practice, when introducing the digitalization of OneNote or Microsoft 365 topics in general, I find that one employee takes to the change really well and another finds it a bit difficult. And that’s where I combined it. I’ve been in contact with the disc model since 2003 and realized that there are different levels of learning. We learn differently and that’s where it comes in. And the communication within the firm, where and then we realize that we introduce something and one part does it and one part perhaps does it later or not at all. And yes, that’s where this disc model is bearing fruit, I’d say. And it should help the team members to develop an understanding for each other and also to develop an understanding for the customers, but also for suppliers or service providers, for example, and that everyone is good as they are and does the right thing at the right time. In other words, it should increase the effectiveness of all processes in the law firm through better communication.

Thorsten Jekel

I got to know it in 1996. I was still employed back then at JIVO Café Service. And what I thought was great: At the time, we had a managing director who said I wanted to drive 101% service and situational leadership from Ken Blanchard into the organization. And he said:: Let’s start with the managers. And the second management level was completely trained for the topic of situational leadership and also for this topic of disc, which I thought was great. I don’t know about you. I think it’s an extremely helpful tool in practice. One thing I hear people say time and time again is: That’s all bogus stuff, it’s not scientifically validated in any way. What do you think about this topic when you get objections like this?

Philipp Sterzinger

Yes, for me it is clearly a model and it is never a reflection of reality. And it also shows the behavior, the current behavior, and it can also be changed. So we have a basic type, a basic characteristic or two or three, depending. But I think there’s a lot more to this four-color model. And if you look into it a little further, outside of Disc, there is also the motif compass, which also says, for example, which hormones are decisive for which type or which characteristics does it have? And yes, it’s simply about saying, choose what suits you from this bouquet of flowers. But be careful not to pigeonhole people, but to say, okay, there’s a basic characteristic that I understand and I can work on it. So it’s actually important to say, this is my strength, I’m working on it and here, I might not find it so easy, but then I’ll leave it out. And to say that we have enough tasks in law firms or in companies where we can say: Okay, this one is particularly suitable for me: Okay, this one is particularly suitable for marketing, this one is particularly suitable for processing and everyone in the law firm or company should be able to do what they are passionate about and what they are here on this earth for.

Thorsten Jekel

I think that’s great, because I always think the greatest injustice is unfair, is to treat different people equally. That’s something we like to do in Germany. So there are also these different pictures where four different animals are standing behind a fence and one is somehow a gaffer, he can easily look over it, the other is somehow the smallest, a goldfish, and to say: “Yes, you all have the same height, but everyone is equal: Yes, you’re all the same height, but you’re all different. I always think that’s great. What is your approach when you go into tax firms like this, when you use this tool to improve collaboration? How do you go about it, Philipp?

Philipp Sterzinger

I start with one of these, for me it’s called a disc team day, I come to the office for a day, it can also be hybrid, so I’ve already done it online or hybrid, and we first make sure that we simply do the test. We do it together with Persolog, where we say: first of all, the evaluation describes the basic model of the four colors, i.e. the classic initiatives or the dominant style, the stetic and the conscientious. These are the four colors, describing what makes them special, what makes the communication of these types special. And then it goes into the job descriptions, where we say:: What positions and roles are there in the law firm? What tasks do we have in the law firm? and then we assign them, in a classic way, like a bar camp session, where we say we have a flipchart or a digital board, where we say: What roles do we have? What roles do we have? Who is currently in them? And then we look at the results, wait for the results from the disc test and see: Is this person suitable? Or is there perhaps someone who is better suited to it and does it make sense to swap roles for four weeks, for example? Let that work.

Philipp Sterzinger

We then categorize clients and look at:: What types do we have, how do we assess them? Together as a team. It’s also a very fun way of working together, so we spend a nice day together and then create communication guidelines. How do I deal with this type? How do I deal with the other type? How can different types interact with each other? That’s always a lot of fun. We also divide it up quite nicely in the room, that we really put the types in corners and say:: Okay, would you have assessed yourselves like this? How would the team have assessed them? And is it really about understanding and better communication?

Thorsten Jekel

That’s very exciting. And what would interest me is if you are now in a team, then you can do a quick test or a more detailed test after such an introduction and then everyone does it. Now you can’t say to the client:: Here, fill out this test before you work with me. What is your recommended procedure for doing this with clients?

Philipp Sterzinger

Yes, I think you can do that from certain words, i.e. form a vocabulary, which words are used by which type, and then look at the communication of the last few weeks and months. This can be done relatively quickly with a DMS system, for example, by looking through the communication, but also by looking at behavior, for example: How punctual is he? How punctual is he? How many ideas does he bring to the annual accounts meeting each time? And there are already signs where we can recognize a basic tendency – of course not as precisely as when he fills out the test – we recently did this with a law firm: they then gave their top clients, who either gave them a birthday or Christmas present, that they fill out the test and then say: “Let’s do it again: Then let’s have another client evening where we do this in a playful way with clients and have a bit of a drink with food and establish this as a product for the law firm and say:: Hey, let’s take a look when you’re looking for a new employee, there’s a shortage of skilled workers in many sectors, like in the tax consultancy sector, and say:: Why don’t you choose or let’s write down what type of employee we want?

Philipp Sterzinger

Who else is missing from the team? And then something really great will come out of it.

Thorsten Jekel

I think it’s great. So what I also find quite exciting, I don’t know if you know it, there are some add-ons for LinkedIn, for example, that are able to tell you:: I have a profile here and what disc types does this person have on LinkedIn based on their post behavior. And I’m always amazed. I sometimes do this when I’m canvassing so that I take a look beforehand, okay, if I’ve never dealt with them before, what is their profile like? And I’m always surprised at how well that works, at least as an initial integration. I don’t know, what are your experiences with such tools?

Philipp Sterzinger

I haven’t had any points of contact yet. I find it exciting. So maybe we can include it in the show notes. If you could tell me what the tool is called, I would take a look. In my experience, law firms often have agencies, such as ZebraDoo, that write for these profiles. And there are also specific providers, such as NewGen AG, who work specifically with this sales psychology and then design the profiles in such a way that they attract the right people. And then, of course, it gets a bit watered down because there are already sentences in there about a certain basic type that they want to work with and then they themselves may not be able to show themselves as authentically as a result.

Thorsten Jekel

Comprehensible. I’ll take a look. I’ll be happy to put two or three tools in there afterwards. Crystal is the tool I use there. You can also use it for listeners, there’s a certain test quota. You can test it and then you practically have … There’s something like LeadDelta, you probably know, where I can say I can pull out addresses, there are add-ons like that. And I think that’s a pretty cool add-on, where you can at least get an initial, in my opinion, good indication. Ultimately, of course, Cambridge Analytics also worked in a similar way, let’s say. Unfortunately, of course, for the wrong president at the time, but ultimately also successful, to say, campaigning on the basis of: What are the profiles like and who is what appealing to? I think that’s great. So maybe especially for law firms that say that most law firms don’t have the acquisition bottleneck, at least that’s my perception when I’m out and about. They are more concerned with: How do I get the right people as employees? But sometimes this is also interesting, given the background. Perhaps I could pick up on what you said earlier: Where is there a clash between which main types of behavior – I’ll call them that now?

Thorsten Jekel

In your experience, where do things grate the most between which types?

Philipp Sterzinger

In my experience, they are either multiple types, i.e. if someone has three different potentials fully developed and then has a problem with himself as to which of his inclinations he is now living out in his behavior or is very changeable, then he is also not easy for the team to grasp. Or if you look at the circle, in Persolog the top left is red, then top right is yellow, bottom right is green and bottom left is blue and then it’s always a cross, so red and green are not so good and yellow and blue are not so good, which are the main types. And if you look at the axis more or less vertically, it’s more or less on the left for the red type and for the blue type it’s very, very strenuous and stressful and pressure. And if you look at the horizontal axis, the top is more extroverted, task-oriented and the bottom is introverted and objective. And you can see that the potential for conflict is usually crosswise. What are your experiences with this?

Thorsten Jekel

I see it the same way. I always make the distinction that I ask myself the first question: is someone rather loud or quiet, i.e. rather extroverted or introverted, just as you rightly said, and I say: okay, the extroverts are the reds and yellows at the top: Okay, the extroverts are the reds and the yellows at the top, the introverts are the blues and the greens And then I say to myself, is someone more people-oriented or more fact-oriented? Then I differentiate again between the other dimension. I think that also helps a lot, because you can’t test someone and that’s an initial assessment. And my experience is also that crossover is the most stressful on the one hand, that’s where things are most likely to rumble, but on the other hand that’s also where the potential for complementarity is greatest. I once had a team of three sales managers plus myself and I didn’t do it on purpose. I could say I did it on purpose, but we were pretty much each with our main tendency in one of those four quadrants. Of course, it was always popping right between the diagonals. In other words, the red The dominant said to the steady:: Let’s get out of the quark, don’t fidget so long, always involve everyone here.

Thorsten Jekel

The Green said:: Please don’t run us over. The good thing is that excessive strength always turns into weakness and then you can complement each other wonderfully What I also find extremely great from my own experience, not even when dealing with customers, but in my own management work, is that you can say:: Turn your D down a bit or turn your G up a bit. I think that’s a completely different statement to saying: “Come out of your shell: Come out of your shell or somehow:: Can you work a bit more precisely or something like that? What is your experience with the tool in terms of communication within the team? How do you see it?

Philipp Sterzinger

I think it’s very important that things run in an appreciative way and you have also completed the additional qualification in emotional intelligence, which I also use as a structure in my management work or with the head of the law firm. And the emotional intelligence or this quocent from it also shows: am I very forceful as a dominant or: have I already developed further or: have I worked on myself and my leadership issues so that I can communicate more appreciatively, that I communicate more clearly, that I reflect on the guidelines again. I always differentiate between three levels of change. When I train, it’s always the ability, the willingness and the knowledge. And yes, we often look at that and say: Does he want to? Or we say: He doesn’t want to, but we don’t check whether he has all the knowledge and whether he has the skills, i.e. the competence. And that’s what you see when you look at the EQ: Okay, the manager first has to develop so that they can find verifiable routines or quality standards, so that all employees in the team have the right information, have the information in good time. And yes, they have already built up the skills, i.e. they have the training to be able to understand this very complex issue and then implement it correctly.

Philipp Sterzinger

And we often look at them or many managers often look at them and say they don’t want to, they don’t want to change. And the change starts by providing him with the knowledge, letting him acquire the skills and then noticing whether the motivation is there, the motive is there, that he also wants to and is willing to step on the gas.

Thorsten Jekel

Yes, it’s always the bottleneck. It’s usually not the technology, not the employees, but very often the manager, I always say from my own experience, that if all the employees are in some kind of bottle, then I first look at the manager and say: “Okay, maybe we should start there: Okay, maybe we should start there. And for years, I was responsible for many of the employees in management myself. Fortunately, that’s why I’ve occasionally taken a look in the mirror and said: “Maybe I need to start with myself: Maybe I need to start with myself. I think that’s great too. And what I also think is great, I don’t know if you also use it, the employee integration system, topic. So this topic, when you go into the acquisition of employees. Because my experience is that the biggest mistakes I’ve made in over 35 years were that I hired the wrong people and that I didn’t separate myself from them consistently enough. And that’s where I found this employee integration system cluster to say: Man, you have these four questionnaires that the employee, the potential applicant, fills out, that I fill out. What experiences have you had with the tool?

Philipp Sterzinger

Yes, similar. So it was quite funny at the law firm where I had two different bosses and I found both of them exciting. One was dominant and the other was conscientious and both were basically looking for people who were like them in the job profile. And when we put the two together, we realized that we were looking for two different employees. One was looking for someone who would make dominant decisions, implement new mandate meetings and make acquisitions, and the other wanted someone for processing who would monitor quality because quality was so important to him and a lot of mistakes happened due to the high stress and the pressure of deadlines. And then we were basically looking for two different employees and the job advertisement that they had placed beforehand when they were looking was also such that anyone could apply, but not the person who was needed. So it was a similar experience.

Thorsten Jekel

Yes, I can absolutely see that. I think tools like this can always be extremely helpful if you don’t make the mistake – you said it just right earlier – of misinterpreting it as reality and pigeonholing someone, saying that someone is like that. So if I take a look now, for example, I have a much higher D in a professional context. I’ve been with my wife for 34 years now. Next year we’ll have been married for 30 years. If I didn’t lower my D from time to time in my private life, we’d be at war. So next year we wouldn’t have a 30-year wedding anniversary, but a 30-year war, because my wife is highly dominant. And that’s the kind of thing where I say: I’ll drive down there, drive my food up there a bit, where I say:: You don’t always have to be on full throttle like that. That’s what I find really interesting about the model, that you also say:: Okay, there are contexts where different behavior is perhaps sometimes more appropriate. So what are your experiences? Where do you think flexibility and different behavior are important and how do you support law firms?

Philipp Sterzinger

I’ll start with a private example, where I also find it funny that we as advisors and consultants always give advice and take it with us. I realized that I once tried to explain to my children and wife at home how to put the dishwasher away much, much faster. And then my wife showed me that she could put in twice as many dishes as I could and that it would be even quicker because the dishwasher would actually be used. And then our daughter intervened and, as the creative one, said:: Yes mom, you get more in, but then not everything is so clean because some things are stacked in such a way that they don’t get completely clean. And the truth is somewhere in between, that I tackle things and simply put the dishwasher away and empty it and don’t advise her on how to do it better. And she does it a thousand times a year and I do it maybe, I don’t know, five or six times. And it was so funny to realize from the basic types that she is different and I really appreciate her for the way she does it.

Thorsten Jekel

Yes, also exciting. And I always find it really good. It also relaxes me immensely to simply say that you can turn your own controls up and down in different areas. You work in tax firms a lot more than I do. What is your perception? Is there an accumulation of behavioral preferences or is it like this across all areas, across the tax chancellor?

Philipp Sterzinger

I can also say that I would also need a tool like the one you have in LinkedIn, because the dominance of leadership is already evident on many websites. And yes, of course, as an entrepreneur and self-employed person, the head of a law firm often has a very, very large share of the red, i.e. dominance. And yes, otherwise, as I said, there are often also blue types in the management, i.e. tax advisors working off the books, but it’s changing a lot right now. So I have a lot of teams, in the last times we did disc days, there were still a lot of yellow bosses, so very, very creative. But it probably also has to do with the bubble I’m in, where I’m booked, for example at trade fairs like the Steuerberater Expo or DATEV’s regional info days. These digital events are often attended by creative digital law firms and there is little demand for dominance because they have already converted their working models to agility in the law firm. The person who has the expertise leads, and then the boss takes a back seat in the area of payroll or annual financial statements. He tends to be the silent advisor who intervenes when he is needed. And you need a different type of person than in the past, the one who worked with status symbols, who threw Christmas bonuses and bonuses around to somehow motivate employees and whip through the targets and deadlines by August 31, for example.

Philipp Sterzinger

They had to work on Saturdays and so on. And that’s when we realize that times are changing. The new generation working in law firms is moving up. They also want to go surfing from Portugal for three days and then work in the evenings or party in the evenings and sometimes work late. So the working time models, the requirements are changing and then you need a different management style. And accordingly, in my experience, many law firms with a rather dominant management style have to find problem employees, while a yellow or a green one is currently getting an influx. And yesterday I spoke to a law firm that we are coaching, who said that July is the best month this year, even though inflation is so high. We had six new applications, they had to turn down 30 new mandate requests because so many came in and said:: Hey, with us, because we lead like this, because we have such an office under palm trees, as I call it now. So the term is protected, so dear colleagues Kenberger, but they are open to it, where they say, mobile working or, as with Tom lang, we have a law firm fighter. And if you make things like that available, you have a certain proportion of employees that you attract.

Philipp Sterzinger

A blue person wouldn’t care, but a yellow person or a green person would say: “Oh, it’s nice: Oh, nice, I can be with my family and still work or I can meet new people. But a blue person who says:: I’m not going to squat down in my camper somewhere in the city center to do my bookkeeping or video conferencing. And I think it’s so nice to realize that there are different types and to deal with the fact that everyone is good as they are and doesn’t talk badly to them. In my experience, there is often a lot of friction in law firms because people talk about each other rather than with each other and we harp on about weaknesses instead of looking at them: I know now that he has a weakness, so I won’t use him for the job. And that’s where you also notice in management behavior how much pressure the manager or the head of the office has and simply wants to take the pressure off. And to whom do they then give the tasks?

Thorsten Jekel

Absolutely. And I can very much underline what you say. And dear Johannes Wart always said it so well recently:: Before recruiting comes retention. And I found that a very wise saying, because my experience is also to say:: Man, if law firms simply don’t get any employees, then I’d say there are two main reasons. Firstly, I would say: What does your recruiting process look like? And it’s usually so 1970 that it’s simply completely wrong. And the second is: How many employees leave you? Because they say: Gee, this is an interesting law firm, but my experience is that people come to a company and people don’t leave companies, but people leave managers. And that’s exactly the issue. And I think it can be extremely helpful to say:: Before I get a new employee. It might be a good idea to work as efficiently as possible with the material I have, I’m just being disrespectful now. And you also touched on a very important topic, that of respect and appreciation. So what is your perception of this? Is that changing now in times of a shortage of skilled workers or is it still the same as it was in the 80s and 90s?

Thorsten Jekel

What is your experience from the many appointments you can make in the tax.

Philipp Sterzinger

That is changing dramatically. But I’ve already noticed this in many law firms since 2018, 2019, because there have also been coaching offers on the market for several years, i.e. from different areas. I don’t want to single them out. There is another provider that does this more for dominant leadership and then trains employees for them by hiring people who can inspire the other types. But there’s also one that does it very, very softly and says: “Hey, office managers! Hey, dear law firm management, take a look at yourself, how do you want it? And then start, then you’ll attract the right people. What strikes me in this area is very often that the manager is first allowed to train and learn this active listening and they don’t even know what their challenges are, but they don’t listen to their team at all: What are the challenges for the team? And they could bring a great deal of calm to the firm with their dominance and decisiveness and simply send things away instead of being the best man, who somehow struggles through a year-end meeting and recites yesterday’s figures to the client. And that’s where change can and does happen.

Philipp Sterzinger

I have now experienced that many digital law firms, a young tax consultant from near Hamburg, Theresa, who simply records a video where, if she has time, she simply discusses the BWA, praises the client, raises potential and simply sends him this video by e-mail with a cool tool where he can answer, where he proactively says:: Hey, watch out, you can still do a bit of depreciation: hey, you’ve got a bit too little: oh, you’ve got a bit too much. Then he can look at it whenever he wants. And this classic year-end meeting, which takes place in maybe 20 minutes and no longer in two hours, where we look into the past, but Theresa actively looks into the future with you, helps you too, says:: Hey man, your employee needs to develop, or: You need to work on production or processes, because she can read the figures and translate them. And that’s what entrepreneurs love right now. And then you get other clients. And if you also have such clients, you will also get employees who are like that and tick like that, if you allow and listen, what does your law firm need?

Thorsten Jekel

Absolutely. And it’s also great what you mentioned about different ways of communicating. In other words, if I have someone who is more, let’s say, on the blue conscientious side, then they want more ZDF, figures, data, facts. So you also give them facts, figures and data. So, if you have someone who is more yellow or green, then you just make a nice video and send it over to them. I like to use Hippo Video for this. I don’t know what tools you work with. There’s Dup and Bomp Bomp and whatnot and Loom and all these tools. And the nice thing is that the tools are so intelligent these days that I can always see when someone clicked on them. That means I can react accordingly. So I think this mixture of digital and personal is also the question: artificial intelligence is a big topic at the moment. What is your assessment of this topic? Will tax advisors still be needed at all in the future or will artificial intelligence do it all? How do you see it?

Philipp Sterzinger

So I see it on two sides. On the one hand, yes, it can of course replace certain activities, but these are also boring activities. We really need to make sure that tax people, i.e. tax clerks, are more likely to take further training in the direction of IT specialist assistants or go into human coaching training to provide holistic support to clients. And it’s simply a different requirement for the profession, because what AI can do is send complex issues and suggestions very quickly. But we still need our brains to be able to evaluate: What do I need for the client now? Do I want them to pay less tax or do I want them to get large loans, for example? So there are a lot of strategic things involved. And it depends on how intelligently I enter the proms. I’ve already had the chance to have a look at Microsoft. Last week, the prices for Co-Pilot were published, and I was able to take a look at some of the people who already use Co-Pilot in Germany and Europe to see how well it is integrated into the ribbon of the various Office applications.

Thorsten Jekel

Yes, very much so.

Philipp Sterzinger

Yes, it’s just magical. And many people are afraid. So I’ve noticed that I’ve also given workshops or was invited to the DATEV Experience Center last week. There was a really great session on the topic of ChatGPT and then we simply entered things. And the consultants know it, they have registered, but the examples that are currently available or that have been given in many workshops were very practice-oriented, where you don’t even realize in the process:: How can I improve my law firm organization? How can I simplify communication? For example, how can I give an employee who works from Poland in a home office the opportunity to write her letters and optimize the wording via AI so that it is super great German wording, so that it is easier and faster for her to write letters in the secretariat without me throwing in user-related data or personal data of the client. And there are also tools or a colleague, Christoph Nowak, who does this with Phrase Express, for example, text modules, which alone save a lot of time. And yes, it doesn’t need that much AI, but perhaps just structure and process optimization.

Thorsten Jekel

Or MI, human intelligence. Exactly, MI. Sometimes it also helps a bit to say AI or a healthier person … I say, sometimes let’s start with common sense before we go one better with AI. But then I think it’s good to perhaps close the circle to our topic. Chatgpt is now so smart that I can even say: “Write this and this for someone who has the behavioral preference D in the Disc Persolog model. The result is a different text than if you had it written for an S-Lawela. So here, too, you can close the circles again or you can say:: Gee, either write this for a target group or: you’re someone who has this and this type of behavior and so on. So I think that for me, AI is always a topic where many people say:: Oh, that somehow has nothing to do with the other things. I think this topic also shows how it closes the circle again. Keyword closing the circle. What topics can you support tax firms with? What do you offer overall?

Philipp Sterzinger

On the one hand, as a coach, I do team development, sometimes I simply do a location analysis, where I simply come by for half a day, for example, or I will also do this digitally supported with questionnaires, which also look at the strengths of the office management first, so that they perhaps take the test themselves and see how it works for them, how does it affect their work? Then have a complete disc team day with the team, where I spend a whole day with the team, also outside the office, preferably in a hotel or somewhere nearby or in our beautiful DATEV offices. It’s now also possible to work in the branch offices. There’s also the combination of being able to train with a DATEV product or self-organization and things like that, combining them into really nice days, team days, even several in a row, and I’m on the road, recently co-certified as a consultant for consultants via the Tom lang, that we can also accompany law firms over the longer term via DATEV in cooperation with the customer manager. And yes, you can simply search for consultants for consultants on the DATEV website and fill out a contact form there. There is also an initial meeting or you can book an information meeting directly with the Meisterkanzlei, for example for the Disc topics, there is a separate area for seminars on the Disc Day or simply book an information meeting with me via our contact form.

Thorsten Jekel

Yes, wonderful. I can see that there are many possibilities and I always find it exciting how we meet every now and then to say:: I support tax firms on the topic of productive use of iPads and the introduction of Microsoft 365 and I’m a HR IT coach for managers. So it might also be interesting for one or two of your clients if they say they need someone to act as a sparring partner for supervisory boards and management boards, perhaps accompanying new technologies beyond the DATEV universe.

I think we complement each other wonderfully and there is nothing more to add. Thank you very much and I wish you another successful week.

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