Thorsten Jekel
Welcome to another episode of TJ’s Technology Tuesday. As you know, my focus is on digital and analogue productivity. And I don’t know about you, but I think I belong to the group of people who have a pretty good handle on all their digital tools for personal and team organisation. After all, I explain to my clients how to use these tools, and I would never take swimming lessons from someone who can’t swim. And yet – I don’t know if you feel the same way – there are days when I reach the end of the day and there is still a mountain of work in front of me. That’s why today I’ve invited a wonderful colleague as my interview guest. I’ve known her for a very long time. We are both members of the German Speakers Association. She is well ahead of me – she is in the Hall of Fame, and rightly so. She is an extremely successful Spiegel-bestselling author. On what topic? Self-organisation. And with that, I think I could go on talking for hours – but a very warm welcome to you, dear Cordula Nussbaum.
Cordula Nussbaum
Thank you so much, Thorsten. Oh my, that introduction is making me blush.
Thorsten Jekel
I’m so glad you’re here. And the reason for this episode – you can already see it briefly in the lower-third – is that you’ve just released a new edition of your absolute bestseller, now in its 4th edition. Tell us, what is the core idea of this book?
Cordula Nussbaum
Well, the core idea – going back to the beginning – the first edition came out in 2008, and the backstory is that I personally failed completely at self-organisation. Self-organisation in the way I had been taught: create to-do lists, assign priorities, follow through with discipline, plan everything meticulously in your calendar – and for me it simply didn’t work at all. And at first I thought: okay, Cordula, you’re obviously just not smart enough to organise yourself. I mean, at the end of the day I got by, I got things done, I met deadlines – that wasn’t the issue – but these techniques just didn’t work for me. So I started running seminars for people in the creative and communications industries, and I kept hearing the same thing: they wanted to do so much more, to work creatively, to get things moving, to be productive – but for them too, the tools weren’t working. And that was the trigger for me to dig deeper and ask: there are clearly people for whom this works. Why does it work for them but apparently not for us?
Cordula Nussbaum
And that was the aha moment for me. Aha – we have different facets of personality, and there are highly systematic, analytical doers, and then on the other side – I coined the term – the creative chaots: people who are very flexible, very spontaneous, very empathetic. And depending on which way you tick, classic time management either works for you or it doesn’t. So I wrote the first book on that, and at the start I was sometimes heavily criticised: “That’s not how you do it.” And I said: you’re right, that’s not how you do it – and women don’t do it that way either – first look at how you tick. What has been added over recent years is that our everyday life has changed so dramatically – become more dynamic through digitalisation, constant connectivity. We now have a daily reality – in companies too – that is no longer so easy to structure. And that’s exactly why we need a different approach. Which is why I’m so happy to be presenting this new book – Time Management for Creative Chaots – which takes today’s world fully into account.
Thorsten Jekel
Brilliant! And you just mentioned constant connectivity – I always say: if I ever meet the person who invented that red notification badge on BlackBerry, I’ll give them a piece of my mind. That’s always been an absolute productivity killer for me. What’s your view on notifications? Always on, always off?
Cordula Nussbaum
Turn them off. Yes – I recently completed a Master’s degree in Cognitive Neuroscience, studying exactly what happens in our brains. And just seeing a number – you can actually measure it in your body, Thorsten – just seeing that badge triggers an adrenaline and cortisol release. For most of us, notifications alone – or even just a phone buzzing or vibrating – already trigger a stress response.
Thorsten Jekel
As you can see, you see nothing – zero. And partly thanks to your input – I believe I even read the first edition – that was one of the things I took away. This constant feeling of a sabre-toothed tiger creeping up behind you shouting: alert!
Cordula Nussbaum
Exactly. And these are all stress triggers. Life is often stressful enough as it is – especially in companies going through a lot of change, and particularly in the current global situation where you may already be carrying worries and anxieties. So it’s all the more important to eliminate anything that adds yet another stress trigger. Give yourself that. And we won’t forget to check our emails or our chat channels – we’ll look at them anyway. But my credo is always: change the small things, find wherever you can relieve a little pressure, reduce a bit of stress. That’s already a great start.
Thorsten Jekel
You mentioned earlier that there are different personality types. How do I figure out what type I am – how I tick?
Cordula Nussbaum
Well, the book contains a self-assessment, and there’s also one on the website, die-kreativen-chaoten.com – you can probably add the link below.
Thorsten Jekel
Happy to add that to the links. Absolutely.
Cordula Nussbaum
And that gives you a good first impression. I distinguish four broad types. On the chaotic side we have “Igor the Idea Generator” – the experimenter, the ideas fountain, sometimes the dreamer, the visionary. Then we have “Hanni the Heartfelt” – I gave them names; in the academically validated model they’re simply called types A, B, C, D, which I found a bit dull. So Hanni the Heartfelt is the empathetic, supportive type – often found in leadership roles. Then on the systematic-analytical side we have “Ottmar the Orderly” – he loves making plans, values routines, and can stoically repeat the same approach over a long period of time – he finds that great. And we have “Dr Annelise the Logical” – the numbers, data and facts type, very rational in communication, very cool and precise as a leader, for example. And depending on where you fall and how your daily life runs, people simply need a different approach to shape their days in a way that lets them follow their inner impulse – not: I’m bending myself out of shape, I’m forcing myself to fit, I’m wearing myself down with methods that don’t suit me.
Instead, I find the strategies that are ideally suited to me and to my actual daily life – so that it genuinely makes things easier, reduces stress, helps me focus better, be more productive, and also – for example – to say: work is done, weekend has started. That I actually manage to clear my head. No matter how much is going on outside, no matter how many balls I have in the air – I’ve found my own way to step into stillness and truly recover. That’s what I love about the book and about the coaching work I do with people – on the one hand giving them encouragement, and of course also providing tools, methods and strategies.
Thorsten Jekel
Brilliant! What would you say is the biggest time management myth? You do occasionally bust a few myths. In your experience, what is the biggest one?
Cordula Nussbaum
Fitting with the topic we’ve already touched on – and it’s something I still keep encountering, even though by now we really should know better – is the myth: you just need to get yourself organised well enough and then you can accomplish everything you want to accomplish. We always think: okay, it’s my fault, I need to plan even more precisely. I see this over and over again in seminars when participants come in and say: I need to learn to organise myself better, I need to maintain my calendar more carefully, I need to make my lists neater – and I already say: maybe a neater calendar isn’t the way to create free space for real, focused work. I’ve seen people who spend hours and hours each week moving their time slots around and planning meticulously in their calendar – and then an ad-hoc task comes along and blows all those calendar entries apart, with the result that they just push everything forward again. Or to-do lists – where people describe how they grow faster than you can work through them. And yet they approach it with the expectation: if I write a to-do list in the morning, it must be finished by evening. And I say: no – because look at how many ad-hoc tasks arrive during the day that also have priority. Maybe flip it around: yes, of course write down what you want and need to do – the principle of writing things down, always great. And then maybe in the evening – not systematically, just on a scrap of paper, or even just in your head – ask yourself: what from my list did I actually get done? And what did I accomplish throughout the day that came up unexpectedly? And then most of us realise: okay, I finished 3 things from my notes and 53 new ones came in that I genuinely had to do today because they had priority – not because I got distracted, no, they were all legitimate tasks. And simply shifting your focus here – looking more at what you actually achieve – would already be a great approach to push back hard against that myth.
Thorsten Jekel
Great insight. One more question that interests me: this format primarily targets leaders and executives. In your view, what are the particular challenges of time management for leaders?
Cordula Nussbaum
What’s always very interesting – of course a leader, sticking with my four types, operates in one – sometimes two – of those worlds. And so do their team members. And it’s always fascinating in leadership seminars and coaching sessions to first look at: how do you tick, and what does that mean for your leadership style? And you can already make it clear, for example, that the Igors among us – the spontaneous ones, the idea generators – often have a laissez-faire style. Clear, they set the broad direction and the key parameters, of course, but then they let their people run. They don’t want much interim feedback, they trust that things will work out – which they usually do. The Hannis, as I mentioned earlier, have a cooperative leadership style: get everyone on board. The Ottmars are often very structured: first, second, third, with very clear timelines. And the Annelises tend to lead in great detail – briefing very precisely – and may sometimes also drift towards micromanagement because they’re so very focused on the details. And now I’ve already opened up the topic of time-wasters. As wonderful as each style is, it can also become a time-waster. One gets lost in micromanagement, Hanni gets lost as a leader in trying to please everyone and get everyone on board. Reflecting on that – what is my strength, how do I lead, but what time-waster is lurking in there? And then also matching that with: where are the people in my team? Because try leading an Annelise in your Igor laissez-faire way.
Thorsten Jekel
That could get challenging. (Cordula: “Exactly.”) Yes, that could go sideways. What is your view on secretarial and assistant support for leaders?
Cordula Nussbaum
Brilliant – yes. I really speak from experience here, my own experience too: I’m an entrepreneur myself and for a long time I made the mistake of thinking – I can do this, I have to do it myself. And a good assistant or secretary is the most genius relief you can give yourself. When you think about it properly – of course there are many administrative tasks and coordination tasks to handle – but ask yourself as a leader: what is it that truly, truly, truly requires your personal attention, and where are the things I can delegate? And a good assistant in particular can keep your back free so that you can, for example, build a bridge to your topics, Thorsten – look at where you can digitalise, where AI can make the day-to-day processes easier. A leader can, I think, very often put the ball into play there – but may not need to personally handle rolling it out for the team. At least having a basic understanding, though – that matters, yes. Or also to say: what tools can I use for myself from all the ideas you share – I also find that very important. My own self-organisation – I cannot delegate that. So finding a healthy balance is key: where can people support me, and where do I need to step in myself with common sense – that would be the right approach.
Thorsten Jekel
Exactly – and that’s where I always say: before we start with artificial intelligence, let’s start with good common sense. That’s also one of my key messages.
And I believe you’ve also brought something along for us. You gave me a wonderful QR code that we’ll show in a moment. What does someone get when they scan that QR code, dear Cordula?
Cordula Nussbaum
Very simply – behind the code are links to a number of online shops where the new book is available right now. And what I can tell you is: if you buy the book, inside you’ll find a link to a bonus area – a password-protected bonus area – where there are in-depth videos, further links, and explanations of how we can also simplify things technically. Outlook, for example – how to handle emails – very diverse ideas perhaps, but immediately actionable and completely pragmatic, so that you as a reader, if you feel like getting the book, can very quickly make your everyday life easier.
Thorsten Jekel
Wonderful. That matches exactly what I’ve been experiencing for years. I don’t know if I’ve mentioned this before – you were one of the very first podcasts I ever listened to. Alexander Wunschel and you were my first two podcasts. How long have you been doing your podcast?
Cordula Nussbaum
Since 2009.
Thorsten Jekel
Yes, and I think I’ve been listening since 2010 – so already quite a long time, 16 years. Always enriching. Those who haven’t listened yet: it’s hard to read Cordula’s wonderful books while jogging – but you can put Cordula in your ears. And of course, read the books too. I’ve read all of them. I think they’re superb – always a great inspiration. And with that, I want to say a very heartfelt thank you for sharing your best insights with my listeners and viewers today. I wish you tremendous success with the book. And to all my viewers: buy this book – it is truly wonderful. Many thanks, dear Cordula.
Cordula Nussbaum
Thank you.
Thorsten Jekel
Thank you.
Cordula Nussbaum
Thank you, Thorsten, for the invitation.
Key Takeaways
- Classic time management with rigid to-do lists and meticulously maintained calendars does not work for everyone – it all depends on your personal personality type.
- Cordula Nussbaum distinguishes four core types: Igor the Idea Generator (spontaneous, visionary), Hanni the Heartfelt (empathetic, cooperative), Ottmar the Orderly (structured, routine-loving) and Dr Annelise the Logical (rational, fact-oriented).
- Your self-organisation should always match your personal strengths and your actual daily life – not the other way around.
- Notifications and red badge numbers on your smartphone demonstrably trigger the release of adrenaline and cortisol and should therefore be switched off consistently.
- The biggest time management myth is: “If you organise yourself better, you can accomplish everything.” In practice, unplanned tasks with genuine priority arrive every day.
- Leaders should know their own personality type, as it directly influences their leadership style and their typical time-wasters.
- A good assistant significantly relieves the pressure on leaders and creates space for strategic work – however, self-organisation cannot be delegated.
- Digitalisation and AI can make day-to-day processes significantly easier; leaders should at least have a basic understanding of this, even if the implementation is delegated.
- Reflecting in the evening on what you actually accomplished – planned and unplanned – helps to align your focus in a positive and realistic way.
- The book “Time Management for Creative Chaots” (4th edition) offers a self-assessment to identify your type, plus a password-protected bonus area with videos and additional links.
Frequently Asked Questions
Why does classic time management not work for everyone?
Classic time management with to-do lists and meticulously maintained calendars is designed for systematic, analytical personality types. People with a more creative, spontaneous personality style – so-called “creative chaots” – need different strategies that align with their inner impulse, rather than forcing themselves to fit methods that don’t suit them.
What four personality types does Cordula Nussbaum distinguish?
Cordula Nussbaum distinguishes four types: Igor the Idea Generator (spontaneous, visionary, full of ideas), Hanni the Heartfelt (empathetic, cooperative, supportive), Ottmar the Orderly (structured, routine-loving, strong planner) and Dr Annelise the Logical (rational, numbers-oriented, highly detail-focused). Each type needs a different approach to self-organisation.
How do I find out which self-organisation type I am?
The book “Time Management for Creative Chaots” contains a self-assessment to help you identify your type. In addition, according to Cordula Nussbaum, an online test is available at die-kreativen-chaoten.com.
Why should I turn off notifications on my smartphone?
Even just seeing a notification badge or feeling your phone vibrate triggers the release of adrenaline and cortisol in your body. Cordula Nussbaum therefore recommends consistently switching off notifications to reduce unnecessary stress triggers in everyday life.
What is the biggest myth in time management?
The biggest myth is: “If you organise yourself well enough, you can accomplish everything.” In practice, unplanned tasks with genuine priority arrive every day. Cordula Nussbaum instead recommends reflecting in the evening on what you actually achieved – planned and unplanned – to align your focus realistically and positively.
What are the typical time-wasters for leaders depending on their personality type?
Every leadership type brings typical time-wasters: Igor the Idea Generator tends towards a laissez-faire style, Hanni the Heartfelt gets lost trying to please everyone, and Dr Annelise the Logical tends towards micromanagement. Knowing your own type helps you actively avoid these pitfalls.
How does a good assistant help leaders with time management?
A good assistant frees up leaders by taking over administrative tasks, coordination and organisational routines. Cordula Nussbaum emphasises that this creates space for truly strategic work – while one’s own self-organisation, however, cannot be delegated.
What role do AI and digitalisation play in self-organisation?
According to Cordula Nussbaum, AI tools and digitalisation can make day-to-day processes significantly easier. Leaders should at least have a basic understanding of them and initiate the introduction of relevant tools within their team – even if the concrete implementation is delegated.
Why do to-do lists grow faster than you can work through them?
In today’s professional life, new ad-hoc tasks with genuine priority keep arriving constantly. Cordula Nussbaum explains that this is not a sign of lacking discipline, but reflects the reality of dynamic working environments – and that realistic planning must account for this fact.
What is new in the 4th edition of “Time Management for Creative Chaots”?
The new 4th edition takes into account, according to Cordula Nussbaum, the changed world of work shaped by digitalisation and constant connectivity. Readers gain access to a password-protected bonus area with in-depth videos, additional links and practical tips – for example on handling emails in Outlook.
Tools & Resources Mentioned
- die-kreativen-chaoten.com – Cordula Nussbaum’s website with an online self-assessment for personality type identification
- Book “Time Management for Creative Chaots” (4th edition, Cordula Nussbaum) – Spiegel bestseller with self-assessment and password-protected bonus area
- Outlook – practical email management tips covered in the bonus area of the book
- AI Tools for Greater Productivity – further information on artificial intelligence in daily work on digital4productivity.de
